Onderzoek in Nederland » Notarial record of Symon Pietersz Korver and Aecht Jacobs (Alkmaar) January 1650
@Jasper den Otter: Yes, indeed, another common ancestor.
I started searching the Schepenregisters of Oterleek, and so far, no mentions as of yet. Simultaneously, I am also looking for the husband of Dieuwer Allert (mother of Aecht Jacobs and her brother Allert Jacobsz who were present when Aecht married Pieter Woutersz Korver in 1650). Again, no luck.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 13 feb 2025 - 23:28
Given the fact the family also had mentions in de Schermer, I would recommend to have a look here: https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/details/NL-AmrRAA-84.2.037/path/1.1.1.4
In particular inv.2 could be of interest.
JP Ouweltjes - 13 feb 2025 - 23:45
Steve, have you read the book "Genealogie Korver: afstammelingen van Pieter Woutersz Korver, Oterleek 1624"?
if not, i will read it. The archive here has a copy.
Jasper den Otter - 14 feb 2025 - 00:03
Hi Jasper: I have only seen references to the book you mentioned, but the book's contents, likely because of copyright restrictions. Unsure if the author ran into the same roadblocks, but it would worth seeing what the author might have found pertaining to Wouter Dircksz (Korver) and son Sijmon (Pieter's father).
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 00:22 (laatst bijgewerkt 14 feb 2025 — 00:23 door auteur)
Just completed going through inventory number two, and unfortunately, no mentions were found. On a positive note: since there were many blank pages, searching this particular book made it easy (humor intended here). Thanks for the suggestion, however.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 00:53
Apparently, in the year 1600, Dirck Pietersz Kurver was schepen in Oterleek. See here on the right side: link.
And here Jan Dircksz Kurver, lakenkoper tot Alkmaar: link
Here the mention of Pieter Woutersz Kurver in the year 1624: link. Underneath it Sijmon Jansz Kurver, lakenkoper in Alkmaar. See also here.
Again PW Kurver here, here, here, here, here, here.
That's where I stopped reading.
I am a bit surprised you didn't find these mentions, Steve.
JP Ouweltjes - 14 feb 2025 - 09:59 (laatst bijgewerkt 14 feb 2025 — 09:59 door auteur)
Thank you for finding these. Maybe the reason is because I may have looked at the incorrect books. But again, thank you for your help. And it was my first pass through some of the books. I may have been confused, but I spent quite a bit of time behind the screen looking.
Again, I deeply appreciate it very much.
Edit: P.S.: Yes, I'm surprised, too. BTW: Just looked at the Alkmmar archief version of the registers containing Dirck Pietersz Korver, and found these mentions:
24 and 30 January 1600:
scan 7 - left and right sides:
11 March 1600:
scan 9 - right side:
30 March 1600:
Scan 10 - left side:
21 March 1600:
Scan 10 - right side:
21 March 1600 - right side:
19 June 1600:
Scan 12 - left side:
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 13:52 (laatst bijgewerkt 14 feb 2025 — 16:54 door auteur)
Pieter Woutersz Korver:
23 June 1650:
Scan 78 - left side:
Pieter Woutersz Korver's signature:
11 March 1651:
Scan 85 - left side:
More to follow.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 16:44
Just looked at the Alkmmar archief version of the registers containing Dirck Woutersz Korver, and found these mentions:
Pietersz
JP Ouweltjes - 14 feb 2025 - 16:52
Another mention of Pieter
11 April 1652?:
Scan 102 - left side:
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 17:08
I looked at the book i mentioned earlier, but nothing stood out. They didnt get further back then Pieter Woutersz., and they also didnt know the name of his wife. I made some screenshots of the parts of the book that were relevant. If you want, Steve, i can email them to you.
grt. Jasper
Jasper den Otter - 14 feb 2025 - 18:10
Hi Jasper: I sent you a friend request with a message. Hopefully, you will receive it. Thanks.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 18:34
I looked at the book i mentioned earlier, but nothing stood out. They didnt get further back then Pieter Woutersz., and they also didnt know the name of his wife. I made some screenshots of the parts of the book that were relevant. If you want, Steve, i can email them to you.
Would appreciate if the screenshots are posted here.
Also, I think just staring at names won't help. We need to understand what these mentions are about, in particular those where persons that belong to this family are involved in a transaction etc.
JP Ouweltjes - 14 feb 2025 - 18:47
Part of the reason I am posting these mentions is I am trying to capture as much information as possible. In addition, without the benefit of RK baptisms, marriages, and burial records, I am trying to get a sense of Pieter Woutersz Korver's life span. Plus, since there's likely other descendants of the man, it provides information that previous researchers may have overlooked.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 14 feb 2025 - 19:12
Very good, Steve. It would be great that at some point the mentions are summarised here. Once that's done I am happy to help and see what furthe research could be done.
Jasper just told he will pm me for the screenshots.
JP Ouweltjes - 14 feb 2025 - 21:34
Pieter Woutersz Korver appearances:
21 August 1656:
Scan 133 - right side:
22 March 1657:
Scan 136 - left & right sides:
16 April 1657:
Scan 139 - left & right:
1 December 1658:
Scan 148 - left & right:
23 July 1659 (appears to be the last mention of Pieter)
Scan 149 - left & right:
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 15 feb 2025 - 00:45
So, to summarize what is in the scans that Jasper sent:
First mention of Pieter Woutersz Korver in Oterleek is in 1624. Father unknown. Wife unknown.
There is a clear link between him and Jan Dircksz Korver, the merchant who lived in Alkmaar, who is also mentioned in Oterleek in 1613.
Two options for why they could be related:
1. Jan Dircksz Korver had a brother called Wouter Dircksz Korver, who died young and who was Pieter's father.
2. The wife of Jan Dircksz Korver and the wife of the father of Pieter were sisters, and were both daughters of a certain Simon.
I tend to agree with the writer that these are the two possible options. I also tend to think option 1 would be more likely, as 2. would imply that both Jan Dirksz Korver and Pieter Woutersz Korver would have adopted their surname through their wives. Though I have seen this phenomenon in other cases, I would find it very unlikely to happen twice within a family. Moreover, what the writer has possibly missed are the mentions of schepen Dirck Pietersz Kurver in the year 1600 in Oterleek, which at least hints towards a strong link between the name Kurver and Oterleek where the name Simon is not playing a role. Even more so, Dirck Pietersz Kurver could very well have been the father of Jan Dircksz Kurver and the presumed Wouter Dircksz Kurver!
Some hints for further research:
- It is worth investigating Jan Dircksz Kurver more. It seems he is not mentioned himself in the indexes on the notarial archive in Alkmaar but his children are. Indexes on deeds (transportakten) start in 1623, which means that anything before it should follow from reading through the complete registers. Anything that would help understand his whereabouts, properties, to whom he was married and who his children were might give further insight in what way he could have been related to PWK. Though not fully certain, I believe that this investigation hasn't been done by anyone thusfar. Obviously, reading through the deeds is recommended, but other sources available on the Alkmaar archive website can be considered as well.
- Get a deeper understanding about the mentions in Oterleek. Full transcriptions would be very welcome. Btw, I looked though the oldest records in Ursem but failed to find any mention of oosterweer in the oldest records (up to 1623, if I recall correctly), though Noortdijck was mentioned quite a few times. In fact, the first name Wouter was seldomly mentioned, and in any case not in relation to PWK or his father.
- As any sources from the 16th century in relation to Oterleek are scarce, I would recommend to put a request for digitalization of inv.736 and inv.1387 (penningkohieren Oterleek in "3.01.03 Inventaris van het archief van de Staten van Holland, vóór 1572"). Though there is a considerable gap between the mentions in Oterleek found thusfar and the time these kohieren were made, I wouldn't be surprised if the name Kurver/Korver appears there. Again, I don't think such investigation has been done before.
JP Ouweltjes - 15 feb 2025 - 12:14 (laatst bijgewerkt 15 feb 2025 — 12:59 door auteur)
Edit: you already posted this record a few days ago. Found the 1613 record (30 May 1613, to be exact, clearly identified as Jan Dircksz Korver):
Scan 23 - right side:
You raise valid points, and drew a similar conclusion. Very few, if any, mention of Wouter Dircksz Korver. If so, then I overlooked them.
One thing I need assistance. Can anyone point me to GA, 145, 41? It's some transport act of 16 April 1624.
I'll follow through on your suggestion and request for digitalization of inv.736 and inv.1387 (penningkohieren Oterleek). It can't hurt to look.
One point I would like to raise again was this record I inadvertently found several days ago.
Scan 49 - left side:
Translated: "Considering the name, place of origin (Hensbroek and Ursem are not far from each other), and time of trading, I can imagine that the father of Simon Pietersz Korver (Pieter Woutersz Korver) was indeed the vicarage owner." In light of the information discovered, I am now wondering if this find is valid or applicable.
Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 15 feb 2025 - 16:19 (laatst bijgewerkt 15 feb 2025 — 16:24 door auteur)
Indeed, no mention of Wouter Dircksz Korver himself thusfar.
In light of the information discovered, I am now wondering if this find is valid or applicable.
I doubt it.
JP Ouweltjes - 15 feb 2025 - 16:45
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