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I got somehow the idea that an inventory after Bernardo Antonini was done in 1734 first in Padova and after that the widow, the children and the shareholders received their money some after  in 1736.

I don't know where you found an inventory of Bernardo in 1734? Bernardo was still alive in 1736, when his wife Catherine died. The deeds of 1736 deal with 7 bonds, not an inventory. It seems that Bernardo has become very old, in 1736 he was about 85 years old!

Anneke 12 - 15 nov 2021 - 19:49

Dear Anne. Yes, you are right. My language skills are poor. So, his business went on. I have been reading an Italian academic study about the Friulian di Antonini family that had a branch called di Antonini de/di Olanda. As Padova, Rovereto in Trento and Friuli were part of the Republic of Venice (Rovereto between 1416-1509) arose also the idea that we would be with one branch of that  family, later in1631 ennobled with de Antonini in Roveret. Several di Antonini men fought in the 80years and 30 years wars as they were mercenaries in two generations also, and fought and liver in Breda, Brabant, Flanders even on the United Provinces as amongst their troops. Many Antonini run big business as well. This is really exiting, but I have not found Francesco di Antonini in the Netherlands good archives though a man with this name lived there. My wife's ancestor is Francisco de Antonini found from Ingermanland in 1701, a sword master i.e. fencing master. 

Lehto - 16 nov 2021 - 06:52 (laatst bijgewerkt 16 nov 2021 — 07:09 door auteur)

The hesitation of accepting Bernardo Antonini into the de Goijer family maybe due the fact that Antonini jewish names are found in Corsica and perhaps in the Mark Polman researched family. The jewish Antonini were many murdered much later by the Germans in the concentration camps in Poland. Padova had also a large Ghetto during Bernardos times.

The Italian research has given two names for the family branch in Holland called di Antonini di Ceresetto o di Olanda, that is of Holland, one Giovanni born in 1601 and Francesco near that. Giovanni is found near Danzig in 1643. Theodore Antonini in Riga as burger in 1652. The ancestor for Sweden is Francesco but born later than in 1600 about as he is living in Stockholm in 1702. He could be the son of the older Francesco, or Theodore or Giovanni. F:s son Johan or Giovanni Antonies is with four other brothers researched being right. Johan was born in1662 and was recruited in1700 in Riga  for the Swedish, other brothers from the Swedish Livland. The Anthonies today in Finland share de Goijer Autosomal DNA, also let Nobel that is also behind de Goijer. But who is whose?

Lehto - 4 dec 2021 - 07:54 (laatst bijgewerkt 4 dec 2021 — 07:57 door auteur)

Have you considered the possibility that the sons-in-law of Catharina de Gooijer and Bernardo Antonini may have used the last name 'Antonini' instead of their own names, because they were 'connected' to this important trading and merchands family?

Quote from what Anneke has found:

Children of Bernardo/Bernardus Antonini and Catharina de Goijer (baptized in Amsterdam):

  • Joanna, April 6, 1687 (Gisberto Seep(?) and Margarita Catharina van der Hem)
  • Maria Catharina, April 13, 1688 (Franciscus Galatius and Maria de Goijer)
  • Arnoldus, November 28, 1689 (Joannes Aragon and Maria Magdalena de Goijer)

And:

The children of Bernardo Antonini and Catharina de Goijer are: 

  • Arnoldo Andrea, [= Arnoldus]
  • Giovanna [= Joanna] (she already died, married with Francisco Bernardi), 
  • Sara Angela (married with Giovanni Battista Bressan) and 
  • Maria.

You say: "The Anthonies today in Finland share de Goijer Autosomal DNA, also let Nobel that is also behind de Goijer. But who is whose?" From the paper trail the only possibiliy for that to happen seems to be the marriage Bernardo X Catharina. And yes, I do realize that both Francisco Bernardi and Giovanni Battista Bressan may have started to use the name 'Antonini' not before ~1710. But I cannot conclude what bearing that would have on your data.

-Bart- - 4 dec 2021 - 10:44 (laatst bijgewerkt 4 dec 2021 — 11:30 door auteur)

Dear Bart, I have not thought about them  changing the family name, but it would have been rational as Bernardo was in charge of Gdansk an Courland business at least until he returned Padova. De Goijer went on with business in the Baltic after Bernardo when following the notarial documents.

I came to think the family name Heinck as DIrck de Goijer bought a house an Single and interestingly the house had the Riga coat of arms on its facade. The Autosomal DNA of Goijer  is found today via Heijnen family in Breda. The sellers were Anne Heinck and her husband Hendrick van der Gracht. Archive no 5062, inventory no 42, on June 21st, 1647.

Could Heinck be Heijnen? ...just one idea.. I cannot read the text at all.

At the moment I understand as you, Bart, that the DNA is from a Antonini's female spouse.

Br Erkki

Lehto - 5 dec 2021 - 09:54 (laatst bijgewerkt 5 dec 2021 — 09:56 door auteur)

1) In general, "Could Heinck be Heijnen?" => yes. 'Heinck', or 'Henk' is short for Hendrick, as is 'Hein'. Synonymous.

2) Re: "De Goijer went on with business in the Baltic after Bernardo [...]". Question: Could shipmaster Jan de Goijer be related? See:

Soundtoll Registers Online; (search)


 
 Date Shipmaster Place Departure - Destination
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 2-5-1700 Jan de Goyer Niendam St. Ubes - Kiøbenhafn
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 16-6-1700 Jean de Goyer Neuendam Kiøbenhafn - Thexell
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 26-6-1705 Jan de Goyer Hindeloopen Amsterdam - Pernau
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 19-8-1705 Jan de Goyer Niendam Kønigsbe. - London
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 1-6-1720 Jan de Goyer Niendam Lyssabon - Kønigsberg
Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

 16-12-1720 Jan de Goyer Niewendam Kønigsb. - Amsterd.

-Bart- - 5 dec 2021 - 10:33

Yes! Thank you Bart and sorry my poor language skills. You found also Jan de Goyer ships and their destinations. I have to dig my papers but de Goijer also joined the Greenland company, that must be due whaling, also sailed to Arkangel, Russia, Gothenburg, Karlskrona and one de Goijer was involved with the Dutch East India company, lost one ship in Caribbean and one in Mediterranean, the later due Ottoman/Turkish muslims.etc. 

One companion of Bernardo Antonini was Jan Teunisz that sailed also in Mediterranean. He joined in 1690 in Courland, again my language skills are poor.

This is one family sharing the business. 

Now I can relax with the Heijnen- Heinck dilemma.

 

Thank y,

Erkki

Lehto - 5 dec 2021 - 13:11 (laatst bijgewerkt 5 dec 2021 — 16:18 door auteur)

Jan de Goijer = Jan Claesz de Goijer. Location: Nieuwendam, which is just north of Amsterdam. Some deeds:

1692
1706
 

-Bart- - 5 dec 2021 - 13:42

Dear Bart, Jan de Gooijer was wed to Eva van der Vliet - that family is also sharing Antonini Autosomal DNA with Antonini descendants in Finland today. The de Goijer in the Heijnen- ancestry is written Gooijer or Gooijers and at times with Jan Goijer also. I just followed the last two documents you gave. So, he is related. 

Will check everything now.

Thank you. I am tempted to see Giovanni, Francesco as of Bernardos sons in law, as you suggested. 

Erkki

Lehto - 5 dec 2021 - 16:53 (laatst bijgewerkt 5 dec 2021 — 16:55 door auteur)

Jan Claesz de Goijer X (24-04-1688) Eva Poulus van der Vliet. His mother is Dirckje Martens. She is from Gouda, her mother is Meijnsje Nanne.

Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

Children:

1689 Klaas X (1714 Jan) Anna Noest
1690 Poulus
1691 Anna
1692 Poulus
1694 Poulus
1695 Poulus
1697 Dirckje
1701 Petrus
1702 Pieter
1704 Pieter
1706 Wilhem
 

I am in some doubt if this is the right Jan Claesz de Goijer, because I think this is the marriage of the father of the shipmaster: Claas Jansz Goijer X (1663) Marritje Pieters Hoorn. Why? Because of where he lives. He is the 'ferryman' from Nieuwendam.
 

-Bart- - 5 dec 2021 - 20:04

Ok Bart. The amount of de Goijer men is rising. That does not change the fact that some Vliet is found in the DNA today. This was what I found when digging Jan de Goijer.I tried  did not follow Jan Claesz just Jan. The Vliet name was mentioned in some bonds with de Goijer but I did not at that time make any notices of that. 

Thank you for clearing this my error.

Erkki

Lehto - 6 dec 2021 - 08:26

Bart, after receiving from you the link for the toll, and going through the register for VOC (huygens.knaw.nl) I only understood the greatness of the world of shipping of the Dutch. I have followed some of the business partners of Bernardo Antonini, the task is not ready. 

Then just for curiosity I returned into the Swedish documents and found in 1798 Goijer family in Stockholm and Kalmar. Then checking the Francisco de Antonini documents from the Swedish documents, in one document of 1702 he visited Johan Goyhjersson in Uppsala after he had escaped from Livland Colony via Finland to Gävle, Sweden. Uppsala is half way south to Stockholm. For some reason Francesco's travel was reported and the document was found as a copy by a notary. He visited family, looks like that now.

Lehto - 17 dec 2021 - 07:57

Hi Erkki,

Since Giovanna (= Joanna) was baptized  April 6, 1687, and she got married with a Francesco Bernardi - of whom I suggested he could (therefore) be using the name 'Francesco de Antonini' - it is quite impossible that he would be the same person that visited Johan Goyhjersson in 1702 in Uppsala. Because that would mean Giovanna was married to him at the age of 15, which is highly unlikely. So that very hypothesis can be discarded for now I think.

-Bart- - 17 dec 2021 - 10:13

Dear Bart, I agree. Interestingly Bressan family is found in Carnia, to East from Trentino. My wife is via the Antonini spouses later related with several Italian old families, some branches of Doria and Grimaldi are found with Bressan. I would believe such a family would keep it's own name.  One thing that really troubles me is the profession of the progenitor for the descendants in Finland. He was by the Riksarkivet documents a swordsman, as many of the Italian mercenaries were. The men of di Antonini de Olanda o di Ceresetto were trained in the fencing school of Padova, at least in two generations. They fought for the Princes of Orange, after first being in the Catholic Flanders Army. Two generations of them fought during the sieges of Breda in that city with the French mercenaries. Bernardo is surely related, and her wife, a different branch just? The Autosomal DNA could be from Antonini, shared with all Athoni-Antoninies in Finland today. Difficult...

A Happy New Year, Bart, and all that have been giving roots for the swordsman...

Lehto - 1 jan 2022 - 07:59


Dear all that have helped with de Antonini and de Goijer families in the Netherlands. After a year of more work I have got the Bernardo Antonini family coat of arms from Rovereto, as an  Austrian ennoblement in 1661. The forum in Rovereto has discovered two Antonini families, one came to Rovereto during the 15th century, from Udine Frilia, Republic of Venice (not from the core but thus from Terra Firma areas, most North-Eastern area). Exitingly, this family came earlier from north of the Transalpine areas, as thought now from earlier Hungarian (and near) areas. The same family from Udine sent one branch to Cracow, Poland during the 16th century but one branch came directly from Hungary to Cracow poland during the reign of Bona Sforza and Sigismund the Older. So, two branches of di Antonini were sent to Poland, one Antonini to Amsterdam and two branches for the fights of the Catholics and Princes of Oranje, into Brabant etc. from Friuli. 

Doctor Jan Antonini was the doctor of Sigismund the Older, and his descendant is found as guvernour of Ingermanland -then part of Sweden, now Leningrad Oblast. This family is known as ennobled Peter Anthoni Lofelt (no 316 of nobility of Sweden), original name was Petro Antonio and from Riga in 1636 -then as part of Sweden. 

Anders Antonius/Anthoni/Antonini was by 1688 in the service of Princes of Oranje (!), and was recruited in 1702 by King Charles XII for Tartto castle regiment as the regiment moved from the service of the United Provinces and Princes of Oranje back for sewrvice of the Swedish. His father Francesco di Antonini had a daughter in 1665 in Preussen, who is connected by Autosomal DNA via her ancestors with Anders Anthoni descendants in Finland. Five years before 1660 the smae Francesco Antonius got a boy called Gregorius in Oberwesel. The mother was in this (likely) the first marraige of F. named as Joanna Harri. Harri again, is a Dutch family name, isn´t it? In Finland it is fish but also  the male first name :)  With the first look the name Harri emerges in Delft that was a center of Princes of Oranje, after Brabant? So, this is interesting. 

Which ever the route after Rovereto-Trentino of Friulia, even after Hungary or Poland we talk of the same Antonini origin family from Hungary, likely before Hungary from the Polish, Lithuanian, Estonian Baltic areas during the centuries after the first Milleania AD.

Now I am hunting Joanna Harri, not from Preussen anymore but Dutch areas. The children with later spouses of F. are well known. 

I am so thankful for this forum members who have helped to sort out one path from Rovereto to Amsterdam, Gdansk, Königsberg etc. This gav eme courage to connect Trentino specialists and much has been sort out of this mercenary and treadesman family that entered histrory as iron tradesmen for the Venice Arsenal and Rovereto.

Erkki Lehto

Lehto - 12 jul 2023 - 10:18







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