The other day, index Archief van Willem de Jongh, notaris te Moordrecht (1672-1679) was posted on Hogenda, and indeed, there were two references to one Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen.  The first record, dated 8 August 1677 has Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen described as a timmerman (see scan 385): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3VJ-X13Y?i=384&cat=203163
and a second record, dated 9 February 1678, where Neeltje Jans Proost is described as a widow of the late Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen (see scan 398): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3VJ-XB6T?i=397&cat=203163

From these series of records from 1683, I was able to find the family of Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen, see here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHK-43T2-Z7ST?i=100&cat=203325

Now, I am on to the next step.  Who was Neeltje Jans Proost of 17th century Moordrecht?  According to J. de Jager, Krimpenerwaardse Geslachten1 (posted on HoGenDa, taken from van de website van J. de Jager (hunter.home.xs4all.nl) die sinds enige tijd (2019) uit
de lucht is, no mention is made  Neeltje Jans Proost or van Leeuwen family.

However, I have one theory to possibly go on.  That possibly Neeltje was the daughter of Jan Jans Proost and Pietertje Gijsdr.  J. de Jager lays out the family structure this way:

Illa.Jan Jans Proost geb. 1597 won. GDK
huwt ca. 1625 Pietertje Gijsdr
dr. van Gijs Ingens en Marrigje Dirks
kinderen:
Gijs Jans Proost huwt ca. 1655 Wijntje Hendriks → MDT

My hunch says Neeltje belongs to this family as a daughter of Jans Proost and Pietertje Gijsdr, dr. van Gijs Ingens en Marrigje Dirks.  One thing I have noticed with de Jager's work is family members are inadvertently missing or he didn't have the information at the time of his research.  I'll chalk up de Jager's research as a "work in progress," as genealogy is an evolving matter.

If I am not mistaken, I found this passage:

433) fo 281v 10-6-1637
geschouwd het lijk van jan jansz proost, oud 40 jaar. In de ijssel omtrent moordrecht op 9 juni verdronken.

Unclear where to find this document.  If it is on Streek Archief Midden Holland , it is not user-friendly, and hard to find anything.  Most of the scans are from Gouda, not the surrounding municipalities.  

Getting back to the issue at hand, Jan Jans Proost geb. 1597 comes from this family:

II Jan Jans Proost geb. ca. 1570 won. GDK
huwt ca. 1595 Neeltje Huigen
kinderen:
Jan Jans Proost volgt IIIa.
Huijbert Jans Proost volgt IIIb.
Geerlof Jans Proost geb. 1604 huwt ca. 1630 Crijntje Tijsdr
Dirk Jans Proost geb. ca. 1600
Wouter Jans Proost geb. ca. 1600
Aagje Jans Proost huwt 1638 Cornelis Meesz Buijtelaar
 

My Neeltje Jans could have been named for her grandmother, Neeltje Huigen.

I would appreciate any assistance in finding proof from a document that Neeltje Jans Proost (geb. about 1630) and wife of Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen of Moordrecht, was the daughter of Jans Proost and Pietertje Gijsdr, dr. van Gijs Ingens en Marrigje Dirks.

Thanks and regards, Steve

De eerste link verwijst naar een akte uit het jaar 1677 waarin Jan Huijbertsz Proost, dan 51 jaar oud, en Michiel (Ghiel) Huijbertsz Proost, dan 46 jaar, op verzoek van de voogden over de kinderen van Hendrick Jansz van Leeuwen verklaren dat Neeltgen Leenderts, weduwe van Jan Pietersz van Leeuwen, tijdens haar leven diverse malen tegen de attestanten gezegd heeft dat zij de steenplaats en het aanbehoren, die zij eerder aan haar zoon Hendrick had gemaakt (vermaakt), weder tot haar genomen had en gebruikt heeft. 

Jan en Michiel zijn m.i. de kinderen van Huijbert Jansz Proost die in de stamboom Proost op de site van J. de Jager wordt genoemd [link], met dien verstande dat Michiel op die site Gielis wordt genoemd, wat naar mijn smaak onjuist is. Maar dat terzijde.

Deze akte wijst toch wel heel sterk in de richting van een familieband tussen Jan en Michiel en de weeskinderen van Hendrick Jansz van Leeuwen en Neeltje Jans Proost. Wat hun familierelatie precies was, zou kunnen blijken uit verder onderzoek.

Hi Steve,

Not an answer to your question, but I do have some additional second hand data on these 'Jan Jansz Proost' families. It comes from this publication. The quotes I am reading give me the impression that the data shoud be solid and reliable.

"Op 21-12-1632 verkopen Arien Jansz. Reus, schipper te Rotterdam, mede als voogd van de weeskinderen van Coen Cornelisz. Reus, en als voogd van zijn zuster Brechtgen Jansdr., en Willem Pietersz., gehuwd met Aechtgen Jansdr., won. te Gouderak, samen erfgenamen van Maritgen Jansdr., weduwe van Jan Cornelisz. Reus, aan Dirck Jansz. en Wouter Jansz., broers, won. te Gouderak, en mede voor Geerlof Jansz. en Aechtgen Jansdr., hun broer en zuster, kinderen van wijlen Jan Jansz. Proost, de overleden broer van Maritgen Jansdr., 1/3 part van een steenplaats en 1½ viertel land te Gouderak, gemeen met de kopers en hun broer."

1) This is about Jan Jansz Proost born ~1570 since this is dated 1632, because his son Jan Jansz supposedly drowned in 1637
2) So the 'elder' Jan Jansz had a sister Maritgen, who is now the widow of Jan Cornelisz. Reus (looking at the other data I guess Cornelis Jansz Reus is correct here)
3) Dirck Jansz, Wouter Jansz, Geerlof Jansz en Aechtgen Jans are children of the 'elder' Jan Jansz Proost, and own - together with their brother - already the rest of the real estate. Meaning they at least have one other brother, supposedly Jan Jansz (or Huijbert Jansz.)

Looking at the other data the 'elder' Jan Jansz Proost owned a 'steenplaats' together with Cornelis Jans Reus, who was his 'zwager' - married to his sister Maritgen Jansdr Proost, whom this part of the publication is all about

What we see here is that the 'steenplaats' is passed on to the next generation, so the 'younger' Jan Jansz Proost (the supposed father of Neeltje) also owned the same 'steenplaats' together with his siblings.

More similar data, from this source (OUD RECHTELIJK ARCHIEF SCHIEDAM): 

"Nr. 207 d.d. 16-04-1628. Pieter Jansz. Moortsman wonende in het Oude Manhuis alhier, voogd van de onmondige weeskinderen van Jan Jansz. Proost en Neeltgen Huijgen uit Gouderak beiden zaliger, constitueert Jan Jansz. jonge Proost, een zoon en mede erfgenaam, om namens de mondigen en andere voogden van de onmondige kinderen, te verkopen een stuk land te Gouderak in het Veenstalblok."

All this data doesn't bring you anything regarding an answer to the question about Neetje Jans Proost. But it does give a lot of background about her supposed ancestors.

Good Sunday morning from the States, JP and Bart:  Thanks for your detailed and informative replies.  

Your postings confirm I am on the right track with this family.  And thank you for helping clear up the differences between Jan Jan oude Proost and Jan Jansz de jonge Proost.    I had a sneaking suspicion the 1677 deed contained a family connection.  

Some detils that caught my eye.  First, Gijs Jans Proost huwt ca. 1655 Wijntje Hendriks -> MDT.  Late last night, according to the Dutch Reformed church records for Moordrecht, and I found the following entries:

wife of Gijsberth (sp) Jan Proos, begraven 9 May 1667
kind van Gijsberth, begraven 25 February 1668
Gijsberth (sp) Jan Proos, begraven 9 April 1669

This information is key because this now explains why Gijs Jans Proost or his wife did not appear as guardians for the children of Hendrick Jansz van Leeuwen in 1677.

Second, as you correctly stated JP, "Jan en Michiel zijn m.i. de kinderen van Huijbert Jansz Proos."  These two gentlemen were likely cousins to Neeltje Jans Proost.  Plus, Huijbert Jans Proost also had a daughter named Neeltje.  

Definitely, these are good clues to go on. The search continues.  If you (or anyone else following this thread) find any additional info, I would welcome responses (even the smallest details).

Regards, Steve

This is also very interesting. 

Supposedly, this is about the heirs of a relative of Pieter Jans Moortsman - Jan Gerrits Moorsman- , Pieter Jansz being a brother of Jan Jansz 'the elder' and Maritgen, and who also appears in the 2 links I provided above. The relation is at a point called oud-oom (great-uncle) which means he was the brother of the grandfather of some people mentioned. The funny thing is Jan Jansz is called oud-oom, which I think cannot be correct. So I would be tempted to go back to the original document. I guess you need to draw this one out step by step to see the implcations.... If I understand the family relations correctly, the 'great-uncle' is Pieter Jans Moortsman, which should explain the relation to the deceased Jan Gerrits Moorsman.

From: https://adoc.pub/kwartierstaat-van-carola-wilrik-sarah-en-harmen-rook.html

http://www.stadsarchief.rotterdam.nl/collectie/notariele-akten

"d.d. 03-06-1662: (notaris Jacob Duijfhuijsen jr.) 

(compareren) Gijsbert Jans Proost en Wouter Jans Proost, 

=> mede voor Cornelis Meeus Beutelaer, man van Aechtge Jans, beide laatsten wonend in Gouwerack, Geerlof Jans Proost, 

=> mede voor Huybert Jans Proost en de kinderen van Jan Jans Proost, voor een kant uit hoofde van hun oud-oom Jan Jansz Proost en 

=> voor Willem Pieters, backer, man van Aechtge Jans te Gouwerack en Brechtge Jans, zijn vrouws zuster, bej. dr., Brancktge Coenen te Dordrecht, 

=> mede voor Jan, Grietge, Mayken en Cornelia Coenen, haar broer en zusters, 

allen voor de helft erfgenamen van wijlen Jan Gerrits Moorsman en gehuwd geweest met Sijntge Pieters en

============================================================================================================

=> Emmitge Jans, weduwe van Goris Jans te Out-Beyerlant voor de andere helft, halfzuster van (de vader van?) Jan Gerrits Moorsman 

============================================================================================================

verklaren dat zij 500 gulden hebben ontvangen als hun deel in een legaat. Het testament van Moorsman is van 22-09-1661. 

NB: Cornelis Meeus wordt ook Cornelis Matheus genoemd."

Conclusions relevant to your question:

1) Dirk Jansz Proost is not mentioned here so I suppose that he died without leaving any offspring.
2) Gijsbert Jansz is now in this row instead. I suppose he is (amongst others) representing 'de kinderen van Jan Jansz Proost' - he is actually the son of Jan Jansz, so one of them. But 'kinderen' is plural => which means this is a confirmation that Jan Jansz 'the younger' who died in 1637 aged 40 did actually have more children. Which explicitly leaves room for Neeltje Jans Proost te be his daughter.

So I guess we are getting so close te the answer here that it is more than worth the effort looking up this deed.

[Edit:] There is more to lear about the Proost-family from this publication; search for 'Proos' (without 't') for information about the younger generations.

The deed is here, including scan (scan 5 etc.). Another deed found which is relevant with regards to Wouter Jansz Proost. And here is the last will and testament (scan 157 etc.)

I just realized the "oud-oom" issue has to be 1 generation earlier. "Jan Jansz Proost" is being called a "great-uncle" of the children of Jan Jansz Proost 'the elder'. Which still means that - if I interpret this stricktly, and please correct me if I am wrong - 'the elder' Jan Jansz Proost had an uncle called Jan Jansz Proost. From that one can (or must?) conclude that the father of 'the elder' also was named Jan Jansz Proost. Hence 2 brothers called 'Jan' in that generation.

Which could explain the link to 'Moor(t)sman, specifically Jan Gerrits Moorsman, who - and this is speculation - could be the grandson of the "great-uncle", his father being a Gerrit Jansz Moor(t)sman.

[Edit1:] It is not so speculative as I thought to conclude that Jan Gerrits Moorsman's father would be a Gerrit Jansz Moor(t)sman. Because from the last will and testament above where - after 'repunctuation' - I read "Emmitge Jans, [...] halfzuster van de vader van Jan Gerrits Moorsman" => Jan's father is called Gerrit, and Gerrits half sisters father is called Jan. Hence Gerrit Jansz. The only 'gotha' here is 'halfsister' so I assumed they had the same father. And then it all ties in with my explanation of the "great-uncle-question".

[Edit2:] PS: About Huijbert Jansz Proos, 1658

This is all adding up, especially the Wouter Jansz Proost testament from 1662, implying more than one child.  Good thinking looking up young Jan Jansz Proost's siblings for any references to Jan's family and offspring.  I'll continue to plug away and see if I can find anything as well.  Again, thanks for what you have found.  

Regards, Steve

An attempt to summarize. My guess is Jan Proost (first generation below) must be born ~1500 so approaching medieval times:

I     Jan Proost alias Moortsman (toponym for Moordrecht I guess) X N.N.
                     I                                                                                           I
II    Jan Jansz (A) .....................X ......................N.N.                            Jan Jansz 'oud oom' (B) ...X(1) N.N. ...... X(2) N.N.
                     I                             I                          I                                                                               I                      I 
III   Jan Jansz 'the elder'  Maritgen Jans  Pieter Jansz. Moortsman (+)         Gerrit Jansz Moortsman    Emmitge Jans (half of the legacy)
                     X                           X                               X                                          X                                               X
      Neeltgen Huijgen    Jan Cornelisz Reus             ?.?                                        N.N.                                     Goris Jans
                      I                                I                     no children                                   I
IV                   I                                I                                                                         I
1.) Jan Jansz 'the younger' (+)   Arien Jansz. Reus (+)                                    Jan Gerritsz Moortsman
2.) Huijbert Jansz => cousins       Brechtgen Jansdr Reus                                       X
3.) Dirck Jansz (+)                         Aechtgen Jansdr Reus X Willem Pietersz.    Sijntge Pietersdr
4.) Wouter Jansz                           ? Cornelis Jansz Reus ?                                      I
5.) Geerlof Jansz X Crijntje Tijsdr                                                                        No children Legacy of 1662
6.) Aechtgen Jans X Cornelis Meeus Beutelaer

The other half of the legacy is devided among the children and grandchildren of Jan Jansz 'the elder' Proost and of Maritgen Jans, so the children 'Reus'

V + VI
How Coen Cornelisz. Reus and his children Brancktge Coenen and Jan, Grietge, Mayken en Cornelia Coenen exactly fit in I still have to figure out; depends on how / where Cornelis Jansz Reus fits in.

• Children of Jan Jansz 'the younger' X Pietertje Gijsdr are Gijsbert Jansz (X Wijntje Hendriks) and supposedly (but evidence is mounting) Neeltje Jansdr Proost (X Heijndrick Jansse van Leeuwen)
• Children of Huijbert Jansz are Jan Huijbertsz Proost en Michiel Huijbertsz Proost (voogden over de kinderen van Hendrick Jansz van Leeuwen), and Neeltje Huijberts.

"evidence is mounting."  Sounds like a quote out of Perry Mason. Love it. lol.

Bart, maybe you're being misled by two Maritgen Jansdochters. One (the sister of Jan Jansz Proost) was married to Cornelis Jansz Reus, the other (who is not relevant) to oude Jan Cornelisz Reus.

So Jan Jansz Proost, Maritgen Jansdr (x Cornelis Jansz Reus) and Pieter Jansz Moortsman were brothers and sister. Jan Gerritsz Moortsman was the only (remaining) descendent of Pieter Jansz Moortsman. He left a legacy of 1000 gld to his 'vrunden' and the deed of 1661 is about half of that sum, 500 gld for the vrunden from his father's side.
This means that all (* see below) the people mentioned are descended from Jan Jansz Proost and from Maritgen Jansdr x Cornelis Jansz Reus. First the six Janskinderen you listed (I'm skirting around the older and younger issue for a moment). And second the two (remaing) Janskinderen of oude Jan Cornelisz Reus, and the five children of Coen Cornelisz Reus.

(*) Not all all, because there was also Emmitgen Jansdr, half-sister of Jan Gerritsz' father, who also inherited. Whcih makes sense, because she was alos related to Jan Gerritsz. She received 250 gld, the other two stakes both 125 gld. That must be because the latter two stakes spring from a generation further back then Emmitgen, who was Jan Gerritsz' aunt. The others descend from Jan Gerritsz great-aunt and -uncle (and the notary must have mixed something up when he was talking about an oudoom). 

I hope I'm making some sense here ;-)

Regards, Frans

Op Hogenda een reconstructie van de bewoningsgeschiedenis te Gouderak voor 1700 [link] met de volgende passages:

NA GDA 228 f141 5/4/48 test. van Pietertje Gijs, wed. van Jan Jans Proost (CB); erfgen. zijn haar 3 kinderen,  Jan Willems, geprocr. bij Willem Cornelisz, en Gijs Jans en Neeltje Jans bij Jan Jans Proost; zij wil dat Jan Willems evenveel zal erven als Gijs en Neeltje, hoewel Jan uit hoofde van het test. van haar ouders Gijs Ingens en Marrigje Dirks dd 16/6/22, omdat hij uit een onwettige relatie geboren is, minder zou erven dan Gijs en Neeltje Jans

NA GDA 152 f78v 10/6/55 Jan Willems timmerman (MDT) heeft schuld aan Gerrit Claasz timmerman (HST) en Pietertje Cornelis, wed. Aart Claasz (HST); zijn moeder Pietertje Gijsdr, wed. Jan Jans Proost (GDK), stelt zich borg

NA GDA 206 f5 16/1/55 HV. Hendrik Jans van Leeuwen (MDT) x Neeltje Jans (GDK), meerderj. dr., geass. met haar oom en voogd Huijbert Jans Proost (GDK); hij jm geass.  met zijn vader Jan Pieters van Leeuwen (MDT)

 NA GDA 460 f117 6/10/69 test. Geerlof Jans Proost (GDK);  Neeltje Jans Proost en de weeskk. van Gijs Jans Proost+,  kk. van Jan Jans Proost+, zijn voor ¼ part mede erfgen.                     

R18 f7 24/5/75 de kk. van Neeltje Jans Proost bij Hendrik Jans van Leeuwen en de kk. van Gijs Jans Proost bij   Wijntje Hendriks, mede erfgen. van Wouter Jans Proost+,  verk. land in het MB 

Who needs Perry Mason? 

Thanks, JP, for finding these.  Also glad you caught and understood my humor.

Regards, Steve.

P.S. My late father was a big Perry Mason fan and had a huge collection of Erle Stanley Gardner's books.  Lastly, when I saw Rotterdam showing up in this thread, it brought to mind that my aunt Roos was born in Rotterdam in February 1932.  Though I never had the chance to meet her, my Mom adored her.  When Mom fell ill (due to exhaustion) on a trip to Holland in May 1979, Aunt Roos was the one who took care of her.  I knew right off how special Aunt Roos was.

@ JP, that just is much more than enough evidence. 

I thought my English was 'good enough' to pick up funny nuances, but this one was illusive to me. Don't worry, I am not offended at all, and glad to be the unintentional provider of some fun here :-)

@ Frans, thanks for the time and effort to follow up on my thoughts, and providing much needed criticism. And making perfect sense.

1) You are dead-on in pointing out my confusion about the two Maritgen Jansdochters, one being married to Cornelis Jansz Reus, the other  to oude Jan Cornelisz Reus. But there are - I think - no consequences to the ancestors of Neeltje Jans

2) Regarding Emmitje, the half sister of the father of Jan Gerritsz. I agree with your analysis about how and why the split was made. But I do no longer think that "the notary must have mixed something up when he was talking about an oudoom". From the same document, scan 7, bottom-right of the document it is clear there was some confusion about Emmitje receiving her part:

"Den 3 juni 1662. So hebben hier inne geadviseert d' heeren Advocaten Paets, Carolus van Aller, en Vroesen." (I hope I got the names right). Because of the rather complex filiations and the consequeces thereoff regarding the division of the money these aspects must have been under the lawyers' magnifying glass. Resulting in additions and/or modifications specifically about how Emmitje was related (first page). But the "oud oom" statement remained untouched. 

Hi Bart, no intention to offend at all. Your input over the last days was incredible.

Re: @ Frans, "Jan Gerritsz Moortsman was the only (remaining) descendent of Pieter Jansz Moortsman." This was the first explanation I had, I now doubt it based on the 'Oud-oom' statement.

1) Jan Gerrits being a descendent of Pieter Jansz, both Moortsman, strongly suggests descendent in the male line. Hence the father of Jan must have been a Gerrit Pietersz.

2) The half-sister of Jan Gerrits' father - Gerrit Pietersz - is called Emmitje Jans, hence her father was a Jan. So I must deduce that they had the same mother.

3) This is all quite possible. Emmetje is still related to Jan Gerritsz as an (half) aunt, but she herself does not descend from Pieter Jansz Moortsman. So she doesn't share a 'bloodline' with the other heirs. Her mother was also married to Pieter Jansz Moortsman with whom she had a son. Thats all.

On the plus side of this hypothesis we do not need 2 brothers Jan Jansz (A and B). And it makes Jan Jansz 'the elder' oud oom of Jan Gerrits. Not quite correct, but close to how it is stated in the boedelafhandeling.
On the minus side it makes Jan Gerritsz Moortsman and Sijntgen Pieters generation V, the same generation as Neeltje Jans (*1630). That seems young, too young for the 1661 will, which gives me the impression of an elderly couple (he 'used to be a miller', and nowhere anything about any children they might have in the future, as if it was certain that that was out of the question. But I may have overlooked things?). And of course, the 'oud oom' statement in the will is incorrect, and what is more, the lawyers apparently didn't spot it.

Jan Gerritsz Moortsman 'molenaer' was married first with (another) Neeltje Jans. See this will dated 1640 (scan 597/598), same signature 'hantmerck' as 1661:

1640

1661

So Jan Gerrits is born at least before 1620. And before 1661 he remarried Sijtgen Pieters. Sijtgen Pieters supposedly (significantly?) younger, because she remarried 1662 (marriage contract) with Vranck Jorisz Crooswijck, J.M., and she is still alive in 1684 as his widow as appears in this deed.

Marriage of Jan Gerretsz X Sijntjen Pieters in 1660, both widow(er)

Marriage of Jan Gerritsse X Neeltge Jans in 1637, he is J.G., she a widow (scan 163)

First marriage of Neeltje is in 1632.

Suppose she was aged 20 at her first marriage, then she was born ~1612. So lets assume that birthyear also for Jan Gerritsz (he could have been older or younger) Then he married her in 1637 aged 25, he a J.M.m, she a (young) widow.

Inconclusive. It puts Jan Gerritsz estimated between generation IV and V

When re-evaluating the above in context, I still am leaning more towards my solution to the 'oud oom' question. Why? Because - almost by definition, but at least most probably - Neeltje Jans is the daughter of the oldest son (Jan Jansz the younger) because his father is also called Jan Jansz (Jan Jansz the elder). And there are quite strong indications that Neetje did not have a lot of siblings.

That makes it - in my mind - in the hypothesis Frans has put forward unlikely for Jan Gerritsz to be significantly older compared to Neeltje Jansdr, which he apparently is, at least more than 10 years.

Still: Inconclusive because of too many uncertainties. Just 'leaning towards'

@ Bart: in the  Bewoningsgeschiedenis Gouderak on Hogenda (547 pages !) all the persons mentioned in this thread can be found, with ample notes and sources. Also by HM Kuypers there is the genealogy of the Reus family in OV 2006, that more or less covers the same ground.
Concerning Pieter Jansz Moortsman, he was from 1547/48 and had Jan, Gerrit and Maritgen. In Hoofdgeld Haastrecht Pieter was a widower, with his son Jan Pietersz Moortsman and his wife Haesgen Janmaeth living in the same house, with their children, Cornelis, Jan, Pieter and Gerrit. 
I quote HM Kuypers: Op 09-06-1642 is de laatste van deze vier kinderen, Comelis, overleden en is de enige zoon van Gerrit Pietersz. Moortsman, Jan Gerritsz. Moortsman, mede erfgenaam. Ook deze, hoewel tweemaal getrouwd, sterft kinderloos (the deed from 09-06-1642 can be found in RA Haastrecht inv. nr. 139 fol. 272v. I did not look for it).
This is our Jan Gerritsz Moortsman from  the 1662 deed who, as you rightly found, was married twice. And he was, if I still have my bearings, from the same generation as Steve's Neeltje Jansdochter Proost.
One thing from the 1662 deed still bothers me though (apart from the position of Emmitgen Jans, no wonder that they sought legal advice about that). On the first page, all the children of Jan Jansz Proost (Huijbert, Wouter etc) inherit voor een hant, while below on the page the others inherit voor twee handen. This is more or less repeated on the loose note with the summary on the next scan This should normally point to a situation were there are half- and full siblings.
But where (generation-wise) did this take place?  Possibly: Maritgen Jans (x Cornelis Reus) and Pieter Jansz Moortsman were full sister and brother, and Jan Jansz Proost was a half-brother to them. Again, I wonder if I'm making sense....

Regards, Frans

Tnx Frans,

You are making perfect sense, and that data on "Bewoningsgeschiedenis Gouderak" - which I didn't consult yet - definitely settles this regarding where to 'place' Jan Gerritsz. Moortsman and Emmitgen Jans. Indeed 'under' Pieter Jansz Moortsman.

(This then also proves that the 'oud-oom' statement is not accurate. Jan Jansz 'the elder' is 'oud-oom' to Jan Gerritsz, but that is not what the document says. So the lawyers didn't 'spot' that!)

Anyway, that means - for the ancestors of Neeltje - that Jan Jansz (A) X N.N.  needs to be removed. The earliest known ancestor in male line is a Jan Proost alias Moortsman, born around 1520. And that said without taking into consideration the meaning of voor een hant - voor twee handen. 

For instance Jan Jansz Proost (the elder) could be the son of Jan Proost, while Maritgen Jans and Pieter Jansz Moortsman could be children of a Jan Moortsman, both having been married to the same woman. But the funny thing is that I have not seen this half-sibling-status anywhere, while it has been documented time and again that these were brothers and sister. So yes, that is puzzling.

But could the one hand - two hands also play a role in where the 'oldest' generation is still alive - so 'closest by' at the moment of inheritance and then taking it from there also to the children of already deceased siblings in the same branch?