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Hi Bart:

Found this item involving Cornelis Bancraes, widower, and it looks like the third wife Alijt Jansdr:

https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.003/1.7.1.8/start/160/limit/10/highlight/1

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 9 sep 2022 - 02:16

In going through this thread, it appears Cornelis Banckraes was married three times to the following by name: Maritgen Thoenisdr who was deceased in 1588, Geertgen Garbrantsd[ochte]r who died on 31 March 1614, and Alijt Jansdr on 15 May 1629.  I'm inclined to agree that Bancraes Cornelis was the son of the second wife (Geertgen Garbrantsd[ochte]r) of Cornelis Banckraes.  Unfortunately, I have been unable, so far, to find exactly when Cornelis Banckraes died.
 

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 9 sep 2022 - 02:40

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 9 sep 2022 - 03:47

Steve,

I agree with the above. And re: "exactly when Cornelis Banckraes died." I have not found his death or burial recorded either. But he has passed away between 05 January 1626 and 16 July 1627, which is based upon the notaries found, and is pretty accurate I think.

PS: the behaviour of the Soundtoll database - in my browser - seems to be changing. Not quite working yet, but I am hopefull

[Edit:] PS2: I contacted Tresoar - the archive in Friesland running the Soundtoll-database - via email, asking about the database being offline. Waiting for any answers now...

-Bart- - 9 sep 2022 - 09:48 (laatst bijgewerkt 9 sep 2022 — 10:30 door auteur)

Got a reply from the Tresoar archive in Friesland, database is online again. And yes, indeed a skipper Cornelis Ban** from Alc** can be found dozens of times passing the Danish Sound, from 1584 upto 1603 (and maybe 1614?):

first scan 1584:

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scan 1599:

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last certain scan 1603:

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Searching this database is somewhat awkward; I did search for (name) Cor* (home port) Alc*. I do count over 60 (possible) hits and may have missed a few. Each passing seems to be recorded 2 or 3 times....:

7-4-1584 Cornelis Banckers Alckmer - - - 
8-4-1584 Cornelis Banckers Alckmer - - - 
8-4-1584 Cornelis Banckhers Alckmer S. Yuis - - 
15-5-1584 Cornelis Borchersser Alckmer Danschen - - 
15-5-1584 Cornelis Backer Alckmer - - - 
15-5-1584 Cornelis Borckerssen Alckmer - - - 
31-8-1584 Cornelis Banckerssen Alckmer - - - 
1-9-1584 Cornelis Banckerssen Alckmer Buruas - - 
1-9-1584 Cornelis Baeckesen Alckmar - - - 
23-9-1584 Cornelis Banckersen Alckmer Danschen - - 
23-9-1584 Cornelis Banckersen Alckmer - - - 
23-9-1584 Cornelis Banckerssen Alckmer - - - 
23-3-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmer - - - 
23-3-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmor Lundenn - - 
23-3-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmar - - - 
14-4-1586 Corneles Banchers Alckmer Danschen - - 
15-4-1586 Corneles Banckerr Alckmer - - - 
15-4-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmer Danschen - - 
15-4-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmer - - - 
24-5-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmor Alckmor - - 
24-5-1586 Corneles Bauckers Alckmer - - - 
25-6-1586 Corneles Banchers Alckmer - - - 
25-6-1586 Corneles Banckers Alckmer Danschen - - 
25-6-1586 Corneles Banckersenn Alckmer - - - 
13-8-1586 Cornelis Banchis Alchmer Lundenn - -
13-8-1586 Corneles Banchers Alckmer - - - 
5-9-1586 Corneles Banckertzenn Alckmer Dannschenn - - 
5-9-1586 Corneles Banckersen Alckmer - - - 
5-9-1586 Corneles Banchersenn Alckmer - - -
26-9-1588 Corneliss Barchers Alchmer - - - 
28-9-1588 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer Alchmer - - 
29-9-1588 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
22-10-1588 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
23-10-1588 Cornelis Banchers Alchmor Dannschen - - 
23-10-1588 Cornelis Danchers Alchmer - - -
14-4-1597 Cornelis Duncker Alckmoer - - - 
14-4-1597 Cornelis Duncker Alckmoer - - -
14-4-1597 Cornelis Pomkerssen Alchmoer Alckmoer - -
28-5-1597 Cornelis Branckes Alckmoer - - - 
28-5-1597 Cornelis Branchess Alchmoer - - -
18-6-1597 Cornelis Duncher Alckmer - - - 
3-8-1597 Cornelis Dunchers Alckmer - - - 
4-8-1597 Cornelis Dunchers Alchmer - - - 
19-8-1597 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
20-8-1597 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
6-9-1597 Cornelis Dunchers Alchmer - - - 
7-9-1597 Cornelis Dunchers Alchmer - - - 
7-9-1597 Cornelis Dunker Alchmøer Kønsperg - - 
3-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
3-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
3-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer Alchmer - - 
7-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
31-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer - - - 
31-7-1599 Cornelis Banthers Alchmer - - - 
31-7-1599 Cornelis Bancher Alchmer Danschenn - - 
31-7-1599 Cornelis Banchers Alchmer Danschen - - 
23-8-1602 Cornillius Panckeratius Alckemor - - -
12-7-1603 Cornilis Banckross Alckmer - - - 
31-10-1610 Cornillis Punstiansen Alckemar - - - 
22-3-1614 Cornelis Poeziannssenn Alckmor Alckmor - - 
26-9-1614 Cornelis Pontziannsenn Alckmor - - -

He does sail quite a few times to Danzig (Danchen, Gdansk

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but also for instance London (Lundenn) or Königsberg (Kønsperg, Kaliningrad). 

Around 1600 it seems to 'quiet down', which could mean 2 things. Either Cornelis stayed closer to home and really did slow down, passing the Sound only a few times after 1600, or....... since around 1600 more trade and/or exploration was being started in the East Indies he could have been involved there. The database I know of covers the period from 1699 - 1794 so we do not need to search that specific database. But others may have methods to effectively search for the names of skippers in the early VOC (and pre-VOC) period.

-Bart- - 12 sep 2022 - 13:39 (laatst bijgewerkt 12 sep 2022 — 13:44 door auteur)

Some additions:

6-4-1590 Carneliss Danckertz Aleckhmoer Aleckhmoer - Aalborigh

23-8-1602 Carnillius Pankeratius Alkemor Kønigsberg - - 
23-8-1602 Carnelis Panchartins Alchmoer - - - 
12-9-1609 Carnellis Pantzians Alckmor Dansch. - - 
11-4-1614 Carnelis Pantziannsenn Alckmer - - -

 1-7-1585 Carnelis Banckertzen Alckmoer - - - 
7-7-1585 Carnelis Banckerss Alckmaer - - - 
7-7-1585 Carnelis Banekintz Alckmer Alckmer - - 
7-7-1585 Carnelis Bauckes Alckmoer - - - 
7-7-1585 Carneliss Banckersen Alckmoer - - - 
24-7-1585 Carnelis Banckers Alckmoer - - - 
26-7-1585 Carnelis Banckes Alckmøer - - - 
26-7-1585 Carnelis Banckis Alckmaer Danschen - - 
3-9-1585 Carnelis Banckertz Alckmoer - - - 
3-9-1585 Carnelis Bauckeitz Alckmoer Alckmoer - - 
7-10-1585 Carnelis Banckertzen Alckmoer - - - 
7-10-1585 Carnelis Banckertzen Alckmoer Danschen - - 
8-10-1585 Carnelis Baeckertzen Alckmoer - - - 
6-4-1587 Carneliss Banckers Alckhmoer Alckhmoer - - 
20-4-1587 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
21-4-1587 Carnelis Banckeris Aleckmoer - - - 
29-4-1587 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
26-5-1587 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer Kønnssbergh - - 
26-5-1587 Carnelis Banckers Alckhmoer - - - 
26-5-1587 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
26-5-1587 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Kønsbergh - - 
28-9-1587 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Burwatz - - 
28-9-1587 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
28-9-1587 Carneliss Banckers Alckhmoer - - - 
1-11-1587 Carnelis Banckers Alleckhmoer - - -
1-11-1587 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
2-11-1587 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Dannschenn - - 
26-3-1588 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Burwatz - - 
26-3-1588 Carnelis Banckers Aleckmøer - - - 
26-3-1588 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
26-4-1588 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
29-4-1588 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Dannschenn - - 
12-9-1589 Carneliss Barckessen Alckhmoer Alckhmoer - - 
13-10-1589 Carnelis Banckerttzen Aleckhmoer Danschen - - 
13-10-1589 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
13-10-1589 Carneliss Banckers Aleckhmoer - - - 
18-8-1593 Carnelis Banckers Alleckhmoer - - - 
18-8-1593 Carnelis Banckers Aleckhmoer Dannschenn - - 
2-10-1596 Carnelis Banckers Alckmor Alckmor - - 
19-8-1597 Carnelis Banchers Achmer Danschen - - 
24-6-1598 Carnnelis Banchers Aleckmor Aleckmor - - 
31-7-1598 Carnelis Banckersenn Aleckmor - - - 
1-8-1598 Carnnelis Banckersenn Aleckmor Dannschenn - - 
2-8-1598 Carnnelis Backersenn Alckmor - - - 
5-10-1598 Carnelis Banncker Alckmor - - - 
5-10-1598 Carnnelis Banncker Aleckmor - - - 
5-10-1598 Carneliss Bancker Alechmor Alechmor - - 
4-11-1598 Carnelis Banncker Aleckmor - - - 
4-11-1598 Carnelis Bancker Aleckmor - - - 
4-11-1598 Carnelis Bancker Alechmøer Danschen - -
5-10-1601 Carneliss Banckris Alckmar Brouas - - 
23-4-1602 Carnilliss Banckerssen Aleckmor Kiøbenhaffn - Isslandt 
12-7-1603 Carnilis Banckross Alckmar Brauas - - 
16-8-1603 Carnilis Banckross Alckmoe Kiøngsberg - - 
17-8-1603 Carnilis Banckross Alckmor - - -

Etc. It does pay off to look for the most exotic naming variants I guess....

-Bart- - 12 sep 2022 - 14:48

Looking for the exceptional journeys. For instance in 1602 he is leaving Copenhagen for ...... Iceland! Payment on the 23rd of April.

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Now imagine that, in 1602, with those ships:

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-Bart- - 12 sep 2022 - 14:59 (laatst bijgewerkt 12 sep 2022 — 15:07 door auteur)

These:

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[Edit:] See also https://historiek.net/fluitschip-hoorn-wat-is-dat-betekenis/126715/ 

Being build in Hoorn in 1595 and later, most likely further development of earlier models. Alkmaar - Hoorn is about 25 kilometers:

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-Bart- - 12 sep 2022 - 15:14 (laatst bijgewerkt 12 sep 2022 — 16:59 door auteur)

WOW!  Thanks, Bart.  Cornelis was a very busy man.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 12 sep 2022 - 21:56

Hi Bart:

Where is Brauas, Brouas Buruas, Burwatz ?

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 13 sep 2022 - 06:15

According to the STR online database this would be Brouage (in France):

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Cargo being picked up there is always salt:

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Today when I look at these areas in detail it seems mainly oister cultures, but salt was being produced there back then:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiers-Brouage (google translate)

"The stronghold of Brouage is a former salt trading port named Jacopolis-sur-Brouage, which became a Catholic war port wanted by Cardinal Richelieu who named it Brouage in 1627 to compete with the Huguenot stronghold of La Rochelle ."

-Bart- - 13 sep 2022 - 12:14

https://passion-charente-maritime.com/brouage/ (google translate)

"Indeed, here, the gaze embraces the 11,500 hectares of former salt marshes which made this land, the "Salt granary of the Kingdom of France" in the Middle Ages. Now transformed into meadows or abandoned for more than 200 years, they testify to the prosperity of the place.

[...]

Between salt and religious wars, Brouage the stronghold of the Atlantic coast
Built in a marshy area, in 1555 the city was founded by Jacques de Pons and took the name of Jacopolis-sur-Brouage. Then, in 1578, it will definitely take the name of Brouage. Already in the 7th century, the salt trade increased in Brouage, until it became the most important trading center for white gold. In fact, it was THE salt supply center of northern Europe in the Middle Ages."

-Bart- - 13 sep 2022 - 12:19

Thanks very much, Bart.  For my purposes, I think I'm going to download the entries of "exceptional journeys," along with the first known and last known entries.  There are probably over 100 entries as a result of your data query.  I do agree with your conclusions. Early on, Cornelis was heavily engaged in shipping but as the years moved on, the activity slowed down a bit.  Amazed he was able to find time to get married three times and had as many children that he and his wives did.

If I am not mistaken, you may have speculated Cornelis Bancreasz was born roughly about 1555 (or thereabouts).  I bring this point up because I turned up this entry late last night that might be a possible candidate for Cornelis's father.

https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/images/Documenten/Artikelen/transcripties/beleg/Fabrieksmeesters-mei-juli-1573.pdf

Fabrieksmeestersrekening Alkmaar, mei-juli 1573

Archief van de gemeente Alkmaar, 1325-1815, inventarisnummer 1797
Rekeningen van de fabriekmeesters, belast met het onderhoud van en het toezicht op de
stadswerken, 1573 (mei-december)

Marten Pietersz. ende Bancraes Cornelisz.
tsamen negen daegen ende een half facit ii g. vii½ st.

Assuming for argument's sake the Bancraes Cornelisz named in the 1573 record is Cornelis Bancraesz's father, that would make roughly mean Cornelis would have been about 18 (assuming the estimate of 1555 as a date of birth).  All the same, I have ordered through the Nationaal Archief, scans of the Kohieren van den 10e penning van 1561 for Alkmaar.  Maybe there will be an entry for a Bancraes Cornelisz (potential father of Cornelis Bancraesz, the shipper) that year?  Who knows until I find out for certain and if it reveals anything of consequence on property holdings? From what you were able to find, it appeared the family's property remained in the family for over 100 years.

Again, many thanks for assisting me.  You certainly are very knowledgeable about Alkmaar.  Incidentally, my late father was from the Netherlands.  And he returned there for the first time in late May 1979 to visit his mother (my grandmother) who turned 80 that year.  Almost 7 years passed since my father last saw his mother in person (she visited our family here in the States in September 1972, a visit I fondly remember.  It was the second time she was in the States; the first being the summer of 1964 during the World's Fair in the summer in 1964.  I barely remember the first visit but I still had some memory of it, nonetheless.  Not too shabby for a then-2-year-old in 1964!  The 1972 visit was special, though, in that my grandmother met her namesake for the first time, my little sister, Toni.  Seeing the pride she had made my heart melt with pride.  Turning back to the 1979 trip, I recall my parents visiting Alkmaar, especially the cheese market.  To make a long story short, when I think of Alkmaar, I think of my late parents' visit there in May 1979.  Forgive me for my sentimentality.

Regards, Steve

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 15 sep 2022 - 00:08

Steve,

I agree that the Bancraes Cornelisz you found is a possible candidate to be the father of grootschipper Cornelis Bancraesz. But no more. Remember the entry a while back from Peter?

"poorterboek 14.10.1581 [hier]"

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Clearly stating "Cornelis Banckers van Ste Bancraes op den 14 october." So Cornelis became 'poorter' in 1581, origination from St. Pancras, just like - most likely - his first wife Maritgen Thoenisdr, since the weeskamer document (1588, that Peter so kindly transcribed, also correcting an error of mine) stated "ter presentie van Thoenis Pieters[zoon] van Sinte Pancraes als bestevader van de voirs[eijde] zijne kinderen van haer smoeders zijde" Hence, Cornelis' ancestors did very likely live in St. Pancras. 

Still, the Bancraes Cornelisz you found could very well be from St Pancras. Why? The document you found is about "maintenance and overseeing stadswerken' (literally city works) in 1573, from may to december. These would be major works, possibly exhausing labor within Alkmaar itself and drawing workers from the surrounding area (i.e. St. Pancras). I am quite positive to make that statement and conclusion about major works, because of the year 1573. The city defences were being prepared, and war damage was being repaired. See: Beleg van Alkmaar. Dates: 21 augustus tot 8 oktober 1573.

Alkmaar was under seige, but didn't fall because the surrounding areas were being inundated to drive the Spanish army away. A possibility is that Cornelis' family did flee to Alkmaar during that time, either because of the war itself, and/or because of the inundation.

So yes, the Bancraes Cornelisz you found is a possible candidate. But no, he likely was not a regular inhabitant (or even poorter) of Alkmaar. But Cornelis and his family may very well have been present in Alkmaar in 1573 because of the war.

Picture dated september 1573:

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-Bart- - 15 sep 2022 - 10:39

BTW: Folio 39 of the document you found:

"Claes Willemsz. van Barmhoorn betaelt op rekening den xiien july LXXIII xxv st"

(That we are talking 'major works' is also absolutely evident from the document contents itself, and the size of the document)

-Bart- - 15 sep 2022 - 10:56

Hi Bart:  Thank you so much for the historical context. It's amazing how Cornelis Pancraesz was able to conduct shipping during those turbulent times. I'd be curious if there are any further official records for this family in Saint Pancras.  According to Family Search, the church registers started very late.  Perhaps I'm not looking in the right areas. It might be a stretch to find any further references to this family in Saint Pancras, but it can't hurt my cause raising the question.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 16 sep 2022 - 01:16

Enkele vermeldingen van een Pancras Corneliszoon in de verponding rond St Pancras.

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De bron:

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Maria van Afferden - 16 sep 2022 - 11:00

WOW!  This is great.  Out of curiosity, would the originals be located here: https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 17 sep 2022 - 06:18

Many sources are quoted in the book but these oldest data are derived from two old maps in the possession of the Rijksarchief in Den Haag. 

Maria van Afferden - 17 sep 2022 - 11:42


One question I wanted to ask.  Are there any "early documents: in St. Pancras that I could search?  What I mean by "early documents" are pre-1580s records.  Nationaal Archief has the penning lists which I have ordered, looking for references to Pancraes Cornelisz, father of Cornelis Pancreaszn, the shipper.  The 1531 references above are great but I'm unclear where, if any, there are any additional contemporaneous records to pursue.  I don't expect folks to do my research, though I appreciate the help. Morgenboeks or verponding for St Pancras?

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 29 sep 2022 - 01:46 (laatst bijgewerkt 29 sep 2022 — 01:48 door auteur)







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