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Profiel afbeelding

In one of my other threads, I mentioned the name of Claes Dircxsz. He was identified as the father of one of my ancestors, Guurtie Claes this way:

"Den 12en September (1649)
Jan Bancrasz, zeylmaecker, jongman, wonende op Luttick Outdorp ende Guurtie Claes, jongedochter de dochter van Claes Dircxsz, scoenmaker, wonende in de Hoffstraet

Getrouwt voor de heeren burge-meesteren den 26 September."

In their mutual testament, filed a few years later on 9 October 1652, a brother for Guurtie Claes was identified as Jan.  Here's a transcription, kindly provided by another researcher:

Geert Ouweneel kindly transcribed the mutual testament as follows:

https://watstaatdaer.nl/forum/mutual-testament-jan-bancraesz-and-guurtge-claes-09-10-1652

Geert Ouweneel zei op 06 september 2022 om 18:55

Testament Jan Bancraesz ende Guurtge Claes
In den naem des Heeren, Amen. Bij den inhouden
van dese tegenwoordige openbare instrumente
sij een ygelijck kennelijck ende openbaer hoe dat in den
jare na de de geboorte ons Heeren ende Salichmaker Jesu
Christy 16 hondert twee en vijftich opten 9 dach der
maent October voor mij Baen Jansz,
Heerencarspel, openbaer notaris etc. ende de getuygen
naergenompt, gecompareert sijn d' eersame Jan Bancraesz,
seylmaker ende Guurtgen Claes, echte man ende
vrou, beyde wonende binnen deser stede, gaende, staende,
kloeck ende gesont van lichamen, haerluyder sinnen ende
verstant wel gebruyckende, soo ons van buyten scheen
ende bleeck, dewelcke, aenmerckende des menschen
levents cortheyt, de sekerheyt des doots ende de onsekere
ure vandien, verclaerden van meeninge te sijn van haerludyer
tijtelijcke goederen te disponeeren voor ende aleer
hunluyden den doot de wech ondergingh, mits welken
sij uyt haer eygen vrijen wille ende wel bedachten
gemoede sonder inductie persuasie ofte misleydinnge
van yemant, soo sij luyden verclaerden hebben gemaeckt ende
gedaen haer testament ende laeste wille in
manieren hiernaer verclaert, eerstelijck bevelen
haerludyer sielen, wanneer die uyt haer verganckelijcke
lichaem getogen sullen sijn in de grondeloose
ende onbegrijpelijcke bermherticheyt Godts ende haer lichamen
de Christelijcke begravinge, comende voorts
ter dispositie heeft eerst de voorsz. Jan
Bencraetsz gemaeckt, besproken ende gelegateert
aen ende ten behoeve van Claes Bancraesz, sijn broeder,
indien hij sonder kint oiff kinderen compt te overlijden,
de somme van vijffhondert gulden ende
alle sijn testateurs wollen clederen
ende voorn. Guurtge Claes heeft gemaeckt ende
gelegateert sulcx sij doet bij desen, de
kinderen van haer broeder Jan Claesz, alle
haer wolle clederen, geen uytgesondert, tot
haer lijf behorende, met alle haer huyven, halfgens
ende neusdoeken, wijders hebben sij testateuren /
den een den anderen gemaekt, besprooken
ende gelegateert den eygendomme van alle
den inboel, huysraet, linnen en wollen, silver en
gout, ten overlijden van de eerststervende
als vooren in den boedel sijnde ende soo Jan Bancraesz
langstlevende blijft, sal d'selve daerenboven noch
genieten vooruyt de somme van vijff hondert
gulden, ende
in de verdere goederen bij hun naer te laten
hebben sij geinstitueert ende genomineert
elcx sijne erfgenamen ab intesato, waeronder
de voorsz. Jan Bancraesz verstaet bysonderlijck
sijn moeder Martige Jans te institueren sulcx dat
d'selve goederen sullen werden gedeylt in twee
deelen aen de sijde van Jan Bancraesz
ende d'andere helft aen de sijde van Guurtge
Claesz sulcx dat naer lantrecht behoort, besonderlijck
dat Claes Bancraesz wert gelegateert uyt de helft van
Jan Bancraesz de somme van vijff hondert gulden,
welverstaende dat de langstlevende
daervan sal hebben de ususfruckt alsmeede van
alle de andere goederen ende lijfftocht
sijn off haer leven langh geduyrende, met
macht omme uyt hoogen noot de capitalen
meede te mogen verteeren, alle t'welcke voorsz.
staet verclaerden sij te wesen haerluyder testament
ende laeste wille, begerende dat t'selve naer haer
doot sal stadtgrijpen ende effect sorteren, t'sij
alsulcx codicil, gifte uyt saecke des doots
off onder de levenden, off soo yemant laeste
wille best naer rechten ende equiteyt sal
cunnen bestaen ende valideren, niettegenstaende
etc. Aldus gedaen ende gepasseert binnen
Alcmaer ten comptoire mijns notaris, present
Aris Willemsz van der Minde ende Aerien
Jacobsz Minnen als getuygen etc.
Jan Banckerisz, seylmaker
Guerten Claes
Aris Willemsen
Aderyaen Jacopse Mynne

In sum, all I know for the moment Guurtie Claes was the daughter of Claes Dircxsz, scoenmaker, wonende in de Hoffstraet, and she had a brother named Jan.  It's possible Claes may have died between 1649 and 1652, but I haven't able to locate a relevant burial entry, nor do I have any information about his wife and mother of Guurtie and Jan.  

Any feedback or pointers are welcomed and appreciated.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 19 sep 2022 - 20:03 (laatst bijgewerkt 19 sep 2022 — 20:08 door auteur)

dag,

 

deze?

Begraven (Grote Kerk)

  • Bron: doop-, trouw- en begraafregister
  • Soort registratie: begraafakte
  • (Akte)datum: 13-10-1625
  • Plaats: Alkmaar

Bijzonderheden:
4 gld

  1.  

Overledene

Claes Dircksz Schoenmaecker

 

vriendelijke groet Anne

vries - 19 sep 2022 - 20:58

Could this be Guurtge Claes' baptism? 

datum: 06-07-1636
Plaats: Alkmaar
Dopeling Guiertge
Vader Claes Dirckxsz
Moeder Lijsbeth Remmen

She then must have married age 13, which is not very likely, but not impossible in those days I guess. I didn't find a 'Jan' or 'Joannes' or similar, baptized with the same parents.

(My suggestion and Anne's suggestion are mutually exclusive)

-Bart- - 19 sep 2022 - 22:39

@Bart: I would have to agree that 13 would be much too young for marriage. Not impossible, but the fact you didn't find Jan with the same parents leads me to believe this isn't my ancestor.  Good catch, though.  The Claes Dircksz Anne found might be the one, though Guurtie could have been born about 1624 or 1625, which would roughly mean Guurtie was 24 or 25 when she married in 1649.  A rough guess on the age, though.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 19 sep 2022 - 23:01

P.S. This might be a tough puzzle to resolve because of the commonality of the name. At a minimum, at least we know Claes Dircksz existed and was a schoenmaecker or scoenmaker. Unfortunately, the 1649 marriage record doesn't refer to Claes Dircksz as either living or deceased. Assuming my interpretation is correct, the implication was Guurtie Claes was "wonende in de Hoffstraet." 

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 19 sep 2022 - 23:10 (laatst bijgewerkt 19 sep 2022 — 23:10 door auteur)

Mr. Barnhoorn,

As i live in Alkmaar your question interested me. The Hofstraat still exists in the towncentre. So it is very likely the baptisms were in the Grote Kerk. I found a marriage there of Cornelis Dirxsz with Anna Jans.

In the same church were baptized at least 7 children from a father claes dirxsz and Anna Jans. Perhaps his first name was mistaken by the reverend in 1622.

The children were baptized:

Dirck 5-4-1626

Jan 4-7-1627

Jan 14-10-1629

Jan 13-7-1631

Annetge 30-1-1633

Dirck 30-4-1634

Sijmen 13-6-1635

This COULD be the family you are looking for. Maybe guertje was born between 1622 and 1626. In 1652 she had only one living brother Jan.

I will look further for guertje. Maybe through her children we find out if i am right.

Greetings Marian

Marian Kalb - 21 sep 2022 - 17:56

@Steve: did you compile the list of children of Jan & Guurtje that were baptised in the remonstrant church?

Peter B - 21 sep 2022 - 19:51

Hi Peter:

On September 3, I did a reconstruction but I'm very happy to re-post the following on the family of Jan Pancraes and Geertje Claes:

So far, baptisms of known children of Jan and Geertje.  Note:  Since this couple was married in 1649 (https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.006/6.3.1/start/40/limit/10/highlight/4), there may be other children between 1649 and 1654:

Burial record for kint van Jan Bancraesz (20 July 1650):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99QV-TQB8?i=119&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Burial record for kint van Jan Bancraesz (24 April 1652):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-TQKP?i=125&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Bancraes/Pancraes Jans - Baptism (27 April 1654):
https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.001/2.4.2.1.1/start/0/limit/10/highlight/8

Burial (5 June 1654):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99QV-TQ15?i=137&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Bancraes - Baptism (28 July 1655):
https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.001/2.4.2.1.1/start/0/limit/10/highlight/10

Burial (3 August 1655):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-T74S?i=142&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Marritie - Baptism (10 September 1656):
https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.001/2.4.2.1.1/start/10/limit/10/highlight/2

Maaritie marries Jan Dircx Cloot, (marriage intention 5 April 1676):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99QV-13RG?i=358&cc=2037985&cat=230419

Bankeras/Pancraes and Guertje - Baptism (18 May 1662):
https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.001/2.4.2.1.1/start/20/limit/10/highlight/3

Burial (30 May 1662) (likely the son):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-TW9M?i=182&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Geertje Jans - Baptism (19 January 1665):
https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.001/2.4.2.1.1/start/20/limit/10/highlight/8

Burial (4 February 1665):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-TWKJ?i=192&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Guertje Jansdr and Cornelis Lourisz Croon: Marriage intention - Amsterdam (26 August 1684):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-5H8S?i=331&cc=2037985&cat=240335

Guertje deposes her age as 22 in 1684, which means she was born in 1662. So, this lines up with the baptismal entry for her on 18 May 1662.  Her brother must have been the one who passed away and was buried on 30 May 1662.  Unclear as to why the couple would name another daughter by the same name in 1665 and she dies several weeks later!  Odd.

Guertje Klaas - Burial (1 May 1665):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-T71J?i=193&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Jan Pancraes remarries 7 March 1666 to Grietje Cornelis Ancker:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QV-1QWF?i=228&cc=2037985&cat=230419

Jan Pancraes - Burial (22 August 1671):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-TNYC?i=27&cc=2037985&cat=230843

Two more items:

Orphan records involving Guuertje and Marritje, daughters of Jan Pancraesz and Geertje Claes, dated 6 February 1668.   Guuertje was aged 6 and Marritje was 11 1/2.  This means Guuertje was born about 1662 and Marritje was born about 1656.  These match the baptisms of these two surviving children:

https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl/collecties/archieven/archieven-2/scans/NL-AmrRAA-10.3.007/2.1.1.13/start/260/limit/10/highlight/5

Pancraes and Jannetjen, children of Claes Pancraes and Trintje Andries (Jan Pancraes styled as "oom," on 6 August 1670):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-N3ZZ-Y5VL?i=37&cat=3465645

What throws me off is the Bancraes or Pancraes name. Sometimes, it is spelled Bankraes. In other cases, Pancraes.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 21 sep 2022 - 20:13


P.S. Anne found this burial entry:

Claes Dircksz Schoenmaecker Burial 13 October 1625:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-TQGM?i=52&cc=2037985&cat=230843

As I may have mentioned, from the 1649 marriage record, Guurtie Claes was the daughter of Claes Dircxsz, "scoenmaker, wonende in de Hoffstraet." Her father wasn't styled as the late Claes Dircxsz or I may have misread it. In the mutual testament from 1652, there is mention of Guurtie's brother Jan.  It is possible the Claes Dircksz that Anne found the other could possibly the father, but at the moment, I have been unable to locate any orphan records from the 1625 period that would either confirm or refute the filiation.

Steve Barnhoorn 2 - 21 sep 2022 - 20:31







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