Just before Christmas, I stumbled across this online pedigree of this family which I am a descendant through my late father.  These families lived in the Soest area or vicinity during the late 17th century and early 18th centuries.

First, let's start with Jannitje Cornelis, wife of Jacob Rutgers (born ± 1680-????).  The page shows she was the kind van Cornelis Gerritze en Neeltje Janse.  No source is cited.  Maybe recorded in a notarial or legal document?  The DTB books of that era aren't the best, so I thought it might be from some sort of a notarial record, embedded somewhere in the Utrecht archives. See pedigree here: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/genealogie-eemnes/I22421.php

Speaking of this family, Jacob Rutgers (born ± 1675-????) is styled as "Jacob Rutgers van Dalen," kind van Rutger Willems van Dalen en Dirkje Jacobs.  Same deal: no source citation. See pedigree here: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/genealogie-eemnes/I8038.php

Finally, Jan Rijkse Hagen (geboren rond 1700; overleden/begraven op 5 april 1753 in Soest, Utrecht, Nederland) is also one of my ancestors. He married Petronella Jacobs (gedoopt op 10 december 1704 in Soest, Utrecht, Nederland). Forgive me for repeating the theme, Jan as called kind van Rijk Gijsbertse Hagen en Neeltje Aarts. Same deal: no source citation. See pedigree here: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/genealogie-eemnes/I22428.php

Hopefully, someone with some knowledge of this family or the area can help in answering my questions.  And yes, I have, to the best of my ability, performed a search of these people on the Utrecht archief site.  Unfortunately, I was unable to locate any records. Maybe I am not doing the right search parameters.

Thanks for your everyone's time. Hopefully, I can get some help.

Regards, and wishing one and all, a good New Year ahead.

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/genealogie-eemnes/I7806.php

Persoonlijke gegevens Jan Rijkse Hagen 

• Hij werd gedoopt op 17 april 1696 in Soest, Utrecht, Nederland.
• Hij is overleden op 5 april 1753 in Soest, Utrecht, Nederland.
• Een kind van Rijk Gijsbertse Hagen en Neeltje Aartse

Hi:

Thanks for your reply.  Please take a look at this (scan 36 - left side; https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/collectie/609C5C54C90D4642E0534701000A17FD), and it looks like Joannen? It does look like Joannis to me (see scan 37 - right side: https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/collectie/609C5C54C90E4642E0534701000A17FD.   

Again, thanks.  I deeply appreciate your help.

Regards,

Steve

Hello Steve,

The handwriting on this page is not easy to read, so I may be wrong, but I read:

17 Joannam Richard Ghijsberti et Cornelia Christofori filiam. I think the Latin declinations Joannam and filiam indicate that we are dealing with a girl. So, this given genealogieOnline page is incorrect.
The fact that the owner of the pages does not give source citations should always make you weary about the quality of the contents.

Michaël

Good Tuesday, the last day of 2024, Michaël.

Your assessment "The fact that the owner of the pages does not give source citations should always make you weary about the quality of the contents" is spot-on. Hence, my post, inquiring to see if anyone with knowledge of this family or those with background knowledge of Soest families could reply.

As a general rule, I never accept what's posted as fact unless there are sources to back up the statements.  Also, there are always multiple copy and paste jobs with these pedigrees infesting the Internet that makes matters worse.  

Another case in point is this: https://www.hvsoest.nl/verhaal/1909/de-familie-ha-a-ge-n

Though very well written and published in 2013, the author failed to provide any source citations. Again, very frustrating for researchers to confirm or consult contemporaneous documents to verify the statements.  UGH.

Regards,

Steve

Why don't you contact Historische Vereniging Soest and try to get contact details of Henk Hagen or Jan de Mos.
I bet they have more details than they could publish in a short online article.

Michaël

If I could find or obtain their contact info, I will.  I had trouble finding anything.

Historische Vereniging Soest/Soesterberg
Steenhoffstraat 46
3764 BM Soest

website: Historische Vereniging Soest/Soesterberg

Steve,

i only have the emailadress from Peter Beijer, who also did contribute to the article.

info@uitgeverijpeles.nl 
 

regards Roel!

Thanks, everyone.  The New Year will be coming in soon for you, so please go celebrate.

At least some solid data on Rijck Gijsbertse and Neeltje Aarts:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 01-06-1704
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Aert Gijsbertse
Geslacht Man
Vader Rijck Gijsbertse
Moeder Neeltie Aerts

Baptism record:

And:

Gebeurtenis Doop 
Datum 17-08-1710
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Marritie Gijsberse
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Rijck Gijsberse
Moeder Neeltie Aerts

here:

It says also: "ex dalen", meaning (imho) that these parents used to live in 'Dalen'. Dalen is a village north of Coevorden in Drenthe. 

Hence (?) the last name 'van Dalen' that pops up with other persons that you brought up?

And:

Gebeurtenis Doop 
Datum 31-05-1714
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Ebbert Gijsbertse
Geslacht Man
Vader Rijck Gijsbertse
Moeder Neeltie Aertz

Here it says 'ex daller' (?). 'Daler' meaning inhabitant of Dalen (?) So literally possibly 'used to be "van Dalen" '

Zou met Daler ook Dolder bedoeld kunnen zijn? Dus dat Rijck en Neeltje op of bij de boerderij De Dolder woonden (waar later de plaats Den Dolder ontstond) en hun kinderen RK in Soest lieten dopen? Er zal in elk geval de woonplek van het gezin worden bedoeld, zoals ook bij de andere dopen wordt vermeld.

Another baptism:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 17-02-1709
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Jacob Gijsbetse
Geslacht Man
Vader Reijk Gijsberse
Moeder Neeltie Aerts
Getuige Marie Jans

"Ex daelder"! I think Anneke is spot-on to suppose (den) Dolder.

And another one (two; twins):

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 11-10-1711
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest

Kind Elbert Gijsberse

Kind Aert Gijsberse

Geslacht Man
Vader Rick Gijsberse
MoederNeeltie Aerts
Getuige Mattie Hendriks
GetuigeLeijsbet Janse

"Ex dalder"!

And furthermore under the latin variant of the name Richardus Ghijsberti (or Ghijsbertus); different mothers:

(indeed) 17-04-1696 Joannam; mother is Cornelia Chijstovori (that's my honest transcription), and it says 'filiam' => female
19-12-1699 Gerardus; mother is Maria Petrus, and it says 'filius' => male
26-09-1701 Margareta; mother is (again) Maria Petrus, no indication of sex, but obviously female

** So no 'Johan' or Jan found yet **; I have found 9 children so far, which is an equal amount to what is stated here, but it says "Zij kregen negen kinderen" (they - Rijck and Neeltje - got nine children) which I cannot confirm:

1696 Joanna (mother is Cornelia Chijstovori)
1699 Gerardus (mother is Maria Petrus)
1701 Margareta (mother is Maria Petrus again)
1704 Aert (from here onwards the mother is Neeltje Aerts)
1709 Jacob
1710 Marritie
1711 Elbert and Aert
1714 Ebbert

The webpage also says "Hun zoon Rijck Gijsberse de Spin (1665) trouwde rond 1699, vermoedelijk in Den Dolder, met Neeltje Aerts (Artz) afkomstig uit Den Dolder" ( Their son Rijck Gijsberse de Spin (1665) married around 1699, supposedly in Den Dolder, with Neeltje Aerts who originated from Den Dolder)

If Richardus Ghijsberti is the same person as Rijck Gijsbertse - which looks to be plausible - then obviously Rijck and Neeltje likely got married between 1701 and 1704.

But I have not been able to find data on this bit of text which must be based on something:

"We volgen die van de oudste zoon Gijsbert Rijksen (Haagen). De tak van de tweede zoon Jan Rijkse de Spin komt uit bij de Soester familie Hagen, waarvan Henk Hagen deel uitmaakt."

The person you are looking for (Jan Rijkse Hagen) supposedly is the same person as Jan Rijkse de Spin.......

You stated in your question: "Jan Rijkse Hagen (geboren rond 1700; overleden/begraven op 5 april 1753 in Soest, Utrecht, Nederland) is also one of my ancestors. He married Petronella Jacobs". I have found this marriage:

Gebeurtenis Trouwen
Datum 30-10-1759
Religie Voor het gerecht
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Gebeurtenis Ondertrouw
Datum 05-10-1759

Bruidegom Cornelis Peterse van Cooten
Woonplaats Soest
Bruid Neeltje Jacobsen
Burgerlijke staat Wed.
Woonplaats Soest
Laatste partner van de bruid Jan Rijksen Hagen

Her father is witness: Jacob Rutten. But: 'Neeltje Jacobsen' is the same as 'Petronella Jacobs', or Cornelia 'Jacobs'?

So still a lot of questions...

And this marriage:

Gebeurtenis Trouwen
Datum 23-11-1728
Religie Voor het gerecht
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Gebeurtenis Ondertrouw
Datum 05-11-1728
Opmerking bruidegom van Soest
Bruidegom Jan Rijkse
Bruid Neeltje Jacobs
Woonplaats Eemnes binnendijk
Attestatie van Eemnes binnendijk

The same persons, her father the same name. And these baptisms:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 25-06-1736
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Jacobus Rickse 
Geslacht Man
Vader Jan Rickse 
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs
Getuige Metie Gijsbers

And (twins):

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 12-10-1739
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Margarita Rickse
Geslacht Vrouw
Kind Willemijna Rickse
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Jan Rickse
Moeder Neeltie Jacobs
Getuige Metie Gijsbers
Getuige Metie Jans Cok <= Wife of Gijsbert Rijckse

And:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 22-03-1742
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Elbert Rickse
Geslacht Man
Vader Jan Rickse
Moeder Neeltie Jacobs
Getuige Metie Gijsbers

The names Margarita and Elbert lead me to the hypothesis that this Jan indeed may be a son of Rijck, since he then names a son and a daughter after his own brother and sister.

The key to the fact that Gijsbert Rijkse and Jan Rijkse supposedly are brothers may (also) be in tracing (a) Metje (Metie, etc.) Gijsberts as a witnes with baptisms in Soest from about 1730 onwards. She is called 'Geestelijke Dochter', so supposedly she is a nun. You will find her above here, but also with children of Gijsbert Rijkse and Metje Janse Kok, and this baptism below obviously is stated in error; which couple the actual parents are remains to be seen:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 05-02-1735
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Cornelia Gijsbers
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Gijsbert Ricks Gijsbers (must be Jan Ricks Gijsbers! Supposedly the priest got the brothers mixed up)
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs Rutgers
Getuige Metie Gijsbers

Supposedly this Metje is an aunt to Jan and Gijsbert

And the next baptism (5 months later!) seals the deal on who the parents above are:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 03-07-1735
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Margrita Gijsbertse (again Margarita, also his sister supposedly)
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Gijsbert Ricks Gijsbertse
Moeder Metje Janse Cok
Getuige Metje Gijsbers

Here comes the last name 'Spin' (Spider)

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 06-07-1738
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Theodora Spin
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Jan Rickse Spin
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs
Getuige Metie Gijsbers

So it is clear that Jan Rijckse Hagen is the same person as Jan Rijckse Spin.

Also this baptism to be complete:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 10-09-1743
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Maria Rijxe
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Joannis Rijxe
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs
Getuige Metje Gijsberts

And this one:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 29-10-1746
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Margarita Rixe (again)
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Jan Rixe
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs
Getuige Metje Gijsberts

Metje Gijsbertse (Filia Devota) died/is buried on january 21st 1756:

Some hypotheses:

=> Regarding Petronella versus Cornelia Rutgers, she might also be born and baptized as Cornelia, recorded in error by the priest as 'Cnelis'. We know anyway from other documents who Neeltje's father is (see above), but this baptism may be the actual one:

Doopdatum: 26-11-1706
Dopeling: Cnelis Rutgerse
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 26-11-1706
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Rutgerse
Moeder: Jannitie Cnelis
Getuige 1: Geertruie Sins

=> Regarding Jannetje Cornelis, she may have a brother Gerrit Cnelisse (X Geertrui Simons, multiple times witness with baptisms of children of Jacob and Jannetje). These baptisms say a lot:

Doopdatum: 26-12-1704
Dopeling: Cnelis Cnelisse  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 26-12-1704
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Gerrit Cnelisse  
Moeder: Geertruij Sijmes  
Getuige 1: Jannitie Cornelis?  <=====!
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek

And this one:

Doopdatum: 21-05-1707
Dopeling: Hendrik Cnelisse  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 21-05-1707
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Gerrit Cnelisse  
Moeder: Geertruij Seijmense  
Getuige 1: Jannitie Cnelisse <=====
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek

Etc....

=> Regarding the parents of both Jannetje Cornelisse (and Gerrit Cornelisse). Suppose Gerrit remarried before 1718, then regard the following baptism:

Doopdatum: 07-09-1718
Dopeling: Aelt Gerritse  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 07-09-1718
Geboorteplaats: Lang End
Vader: Gerrit Gerritse  => Voornaam: Gerrit; Patroniem: Cnelis; Achternaam: Gerritse
Moeder: Teunisie Barten  
Getuige 1: Jannigie Gerritse  => Voornaam: Jannigie; Patroniem: Cnelis; Achternaam: Gerritse
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek

So yes, brother and sister... And this baptism reveals the parents of (this) "Jannighe filius (sic) Cnelij Gerrits et Neeltie Jans Ex lang end".

To support this hypothesis, the last appearence of Geertrui Simons I can find (as a witnes, or as a mother) is in 1713 in Soest, so she may have died between 1713 and 1718, which makes the remarriage of Gerrit Cornels Gerritse with Teunisie Barten rather plausible.

=> Regarding Jacob Rutgerse: the baptism below (the same one as the last appearence of Geertrui) reveals him as Jacob Rutgerse Snijer:

Doopdatum: 20-03-1713
Dopeling: Jan Snijer  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 20-03-1713
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Snijer  
   Voornaam: Jacob
   Patroniem: Rutgerse
   Achternaam: Snijer
Moeder: Jannigie Cnelij  
   Voornaam: Jannigie
   Achternaam: Cnelij
Getuige 1: Geertruij Sijmons  
   Voornaam: Geertruij
   Achternaam: Sijmons
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek

For his parents (supposedly Rutger Willems van Dalen en Dirkje Jacobs) I have not found the link or hypothesis...yet?

WOW!

What a wonderful way to begin 2025!

Thank you.  It's going to take me some time to absorb all of this information.  

Again, deepest gratitude.

Steve

Regarding Jacob Rutgerse Snijer: I think Dirkje Jacobs may be his grandmother. Look at the following baptism:

Aktedatum: 05-05-1639
Akteplaats: Utrecht
Bruidegom: Jacob Snijder  
Bruid: Dorothea Jacobs  
Vorige man: Zacharias Zeijler  
Opmerkingen: Soldaat onder Baron van Dona.
Datum ondertrouw: 21-04-1639
Huwelijksplaats: Utrecht

If this hunch is correct, then obviously the father of Jacob Rutgerse Snijer must be called Rutger Jacobse (Snijer/Snijder)

I cannot find any trace of a couple Rutger Willems X Dirkje (Theodora, Dorothea, etc) Jacobs.

Great catch on the marriage record, Bart.  Let me see if I can turn something up.

Thanks for the help with this family.  Incidentally, I descend from:

Gebeurtenis Doop
Datum 29-10-1746
Religie Rooms-katholiek
Gebeurtenisplaats Soest
Kind Margarita Rixe (again)
Geslacht Vrouw
Vader Jan Rixe
Moeder Neeltje Jacobs
Getuige Metje Gijsberts

Margarita was styled as "Grietje van Haage" when she married Jan Braa in Amsterdam, recorded on 16 November 1780. Several days ago, I found her burial date as 4 April 1786.  When I have a chance, I'll post images on this thread.  At some point, I'll start a new thread concerning Jan Braa. According to his marriage certificate, he was age 26 and living in Velsen.  So far, I have been unable to locate any baptism for this fella.

Meantime, lets see if we can find a Rutger Jacobse (Snijer/Snijder).

Again, my gratitude.

Regards,

Steve 

In the meantime, I found this deed, dated 30 January 1731, which explicitly referred to Gerrit Cornelis as the brother of the late Jannetje Cornelisse. Jacob Rutgers and the surviving children are specifically named:

Scan 266:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-R32M-M9D1-4?cat=25230&i=265

@Bart: Regarding your hypothesis- 6 jan 2025 - 16:54 on the children of Jacob Rutgerse Snijer and Jannetje Cornelisse.

After reading your post, I believe my original post on Petronella (Neeltje) still stands, especially when you compare it to the deed, dated 30 January 1731:

Family structure:

Dopeling: Theodora Rutgersche  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 22-06-1703
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Rutgersche  
Moeder: Jannitje Cnelis  
Getuige 1: Geerteruij Willems  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: 
DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

Dopeling: Petronella Ruthger  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 10-12-1704
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Ruthger  
Moeder: Jannitie Cneelis  
Getuige 1: Geertruije Sims  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

Dopeling: Cnelis Rutgerse  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 26-11-1706
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Rutgerse  
Moeder: Jannitie Cnelis  
Getuige 1: Geertruie Sins  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

Dopeling: Rutger Rutgerse  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 08-09-1708
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Rutgerse  
Moeder: Jannitie Cnelis  
Getuige 1: Geertrue Simens  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

Dopeling: Jan Snijer  
Akteplaats: Soest
Aktedatum: 20-03-1713
Geboorteplaats: Soest
Vader: Jacob Snijer  
Moeder: Jannigie Cnelij  
Getuige 1: Geertruij Sijmons  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

Dopeling: Geertie Rutgerse 
Akteplaats: Soest 
Aktedatum: 14-04-1717
Vader: Jacob Rutgerse  
Moeder: Jannigie Cnelij  
Getuige 1: Metie Gebrangs  
Gezindte: Rooms-katholiek
Toegangsnummer: DTB_Archief_Eemland_932 -

When you compare the childrens names in the 30 January 1731, the following were named: Dikjse (Theodora), Neeltje (Petronella), Cornelis, and Rutger. It appears Jan and Geertie may have died young.

Hypothesis: Jacob Rutgerse Snijer and Jannetje Cornelisse possibly got married sometime in 1702. So far, no marriage record has been found.

Birth date estimates: Jacob Rutgerse Snijer, possibly born around 1675, Jannetje, possibly born around 1680 (daughter of Cornelis Gerritse and Neeltie Jans). For both, this is a loose estimate.

As to when Jacob Rutgerse Snijer and Jannetje Cornelisse may have died, I could not find their begraven records. For now, all we can go on is Jannetje died prior to 30 January 1731. For Jacob, per the second marriage of Neeltje Jacobsen, widow of Jan Rijksen Hagen, to Cornelis Peterse van Cooten, dated 5 October 1759, with father Jacob Rutten as a witness.  Unless another record surfaces with a later date, naming Jacob, 1759 appears to be when Jacob was last living. I checked the begraven records for Soest, and it appeared to stop at 1764 and then resumed in 1779. Hence, a 15 year gap. Ugh.

Meantime, the search continues.

Regards,

Steve