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Forum logoOnderzoek in Nederland » Hans Petrus GERNUS - born 1680/85 in s'Hertogenbosch - married Saarland, Germany 1708 - who was he?



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Dear Listers!

The church records from Illingen in Saarland, Germany shows the following marriage taking place on Jan. 8, 1708:

Hans Petrus GERNUS «ex Majoratu ducis de Bois» with Susanna JOCHUM from Illingen.

His father's first name is supposed to have been Andreas, and he was born about 1680/1685, presumably in s'Hertogenbosch!

His original laat name may have been written in a different way.  The marriage recod is the ONLY place his name is spelt GERNUS!

In Saarland he went by the name Johann Peter KENES, and with his wife he raised a large family!  They were roman catholic!

Can someone please help me find further information about this gentleman in the Netherlands?

Thank you very much in advance for yur great assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars E. Oyane - 29 mar 2020 - 22:48 (laatst bijgewerkt 30 mar 2020 — 13:33 door auteur)

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Wesley Fokkens - 29 mar 2020 - 23:08

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Thank you very much, Wesley, for your message!

I am well familiar with the birth records etc. from Illingen in Saarland.  The marriage record which is shown, is the marriage license from 1707.  The actual marriage took place on Jan. 8, 1708.

I have noticed from FamilySearch there is a Cornelius KENES family living in Diepenbeek near Hasselt in Province LIMBURG in Belgium about the same time: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:SY34-781

Cornelius could of course be a brother of Hans Petrus, but how do we prove that?

Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars E. Oyane - 29 mar 2020 - 23:43 (laatst bijgewerkt 30 mar 2020 — 13:33 door auteur)

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Dear Listers!

Searching the records from s'Hertogenbosch has brought up this death certificate:

Identificatie NT000393719
Datum 24/8/1756
Soort Begravingen
Toegang Begravingen ('s-Hertogenbosch, Bokhoven, Empel en Meerwijk, Engelen, Orthen en Rosmalen)
Parochie/kerk Sint-Jan
Begraafplaats Kerkhof
Archiefnummer 19
Naam archief DTB
inventarisnummer 189
 
Personen  
 
Naam: Dooren - Kenes, van Gijsberdien
Rol: Begravene
Familierelatie: Vrouw van Nicolaas van Dooren
Soldaatkind: 0

And I also found this record;

Datum 2/1/1750
Parochie/kerk Sint-Jan
Begraafplaats Kerkhof
Archiefnummer 19
Naam archief DTB
inventarisnummer 189
 
Naam N.N. Kennes
Rol Begravene
Familierelatie Kind van Johannes Kenes
Soldaatkind 0

Could any of these be related to «my Hans Petrus»?

Thanks again for any suggestions!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars E. Oyane - 30 mar 2020 - 00:20 (laatst bijgewerkt 30 mar 2020 — 13:34 door auteur)

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"ex Majoratu ducis de Bois" means, that he originated from the so-called Meijerij van 's Hertogenbosch'.
See the Dutch Wikipedia https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meierij_van_%27s-Hertogenbosch 
for an impression of this area.

This image shows the situation around 1707
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He could have lived in about 30 villages or some smaller towns, but clearly not in 's-Hertogenbosch itself,
otherwise the expression Meijerij was not used.

Wesley Fokkens - 30 mar 2020 - 11:38

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Thank you very much, Wesley, for another very interesting message!

If I understand you correctly, Hans Petrus may have come from any one of the «counties» in the central section of the Province of Noord-Brabant, of which s'Hertogenbosch was the «capitol».  Comparing to Switzerland it would be like «Basel» compared to «Basel Land» or as in Austria «Inndbruck» compared to «Innsbruck Land».  The city of s'Hertogenbosch appears to be located in the very northern part of this section of Nood-Brabant, which according to the map goes all the way to the Belgian boarder.  This in turn reduces the distance to Diepenbeek by Hasselt to about 50 kilometers.

So maybe it might be worthwhile to study Cornelius KENES a little closer?

Thanks again for your great interest and assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars E. Oyane - 30 mar 2020 - 13:32

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So maybe it might be worthwhile to study Cornelius KENES a little closer?

If register yourself at the website of the Belgian State Archives
https://search.arch.be/en/

you wil be able to see the indexes on baptisms of Diepenbeek here:
LINK

Keenis, Keenens, and so on, appear to be very common surnames in Diepenbeek, and probably in the rest of the region too.

Imho the existance of this certain Cornelius Kenes has got nothing to do with Joannes Petrus.Afbeeldingen zijn alleen zichtbaar als u bent ingelogd op het Stamboom Forum

Wesley Fokkens - 30 mar 2020 - 14:06

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btw where did you find he was named "Hans Peter"; on the image from his marital record you posted on Ahnenforschung.net he is merely called "Peter":

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Peter B - 30 mar 2020 - 14:13

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Thanks a million to Wesley and Peter for new messages!

So Cornelius is probably not connected to «my» Johann Peter after all?  It is still very strange why this family in Saarland changed the name to KENES!

As far as the marriage record is concerned, what do you, Peter, think it says in front of Petrus?  I have always interpreted it as Hans...!?

Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

Lars E. Oyane - 30 mar 2020 - 14:28

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before Peter it says "sunt", similar to the entry below it

Peter B - 30 mar 2020 - 14:48

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It doesn't say Hans.
It says "sunt" = "were".
1708 8 january were married.

EDIT @Peter B was first

Wesley Fokkens - 30 mar 2020 - 14:57 (laatst bijgewerkt 30 mar 2020 — 14:57 door auteur)


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Dear Listers,

Thank you very much to Peter and Wesley for the latest entries in this topic!  Yes, I had originally interpreted the name as Hans Peterus, while Petrus turned out to be the «whole truth»!

I have received the copy of the engagement licence for Petrus GERNUS, and it seems to me it reads something different as far as his place of origin is concerned (?) Hemmel(?) deuorch(?) Ducis de Bois.  Can this possibly help figure out where he came from?

Thanks again for your wonderful assistance in this matter!

Cordially yours,

Lars E. Oyane

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Gernus Jochem (2).jpg (1 von 1) 30.03.2020 21:50

Lars E. Oyane - 31 mar 2020 - 21:53 (laatst bijgewerkt 31 mar 2020 — 22:02 door auteur)







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