Hello

Waht is meant when a marriage says 

or something similar

Regards

Till the age of 31 the bride and groom needed permission of their parents to marry. If the parents had already died they had to provide an extract of the death certificate, to prove that the parents weren not alive anymore. 

Legitimation first child means that the bride already had a child before the marriage. Durig the wedding ceremony the bride and groom acknowledged that the child was theirs and from that day the child was regarded as a legal child of both of them and has the family name of the groom. When a child is legitimized at the wedding that does not necessarily mean that the groom is also the father of the child. A man could acknowledge a child that was not his biological child.

Thankyou Johanna,

that is a great help I have been trying to find a child of Catherina Overberg who married Johannes Renes in 1825 they had two daughters but there is supposed to be a third child Machiel/Magiel Renes/Rennes who emmigrated to Australia in the 1850's. he cites this couple as his parents but I hav found no record of him.

So now I will keep looking at his mothers previous husbands.

Thank you for your assistance

As far as I can see Catherina Overberg was married to Johannes Machiels Renes on  january 23th  1825 in Groningen.

I find the birth of one daughter, Antje, on january 10th 1833 in Garmerwolde, gemeente Ten Boer.

Johannes passed away on oktober 8th 1833 in Groningen (with mention that he lived in Amsterdam)

Catherina died on october 18th  1852 in Groningen.

 http://www.allegroningers.nl/personen/q/persoon_achternaam_t_0/Overberg/q/persoon_voornaam_t_0/Cat%2A/q/persoon_rol_s_0/0/q/persoon_rol_s_1/0?sort=datum_i&direction=asc

I searched the indexes of birth between 1825 and 1833 in Amsterdam, but couldn't find any other children. 

Note: on the marriage certificate is written the recognition of a son Harmanus, born october 23th 1818 in Groningen.

The link of marriage: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-68PF-G?i=67&wc=MCL2-129%3A343162201%2C344181301%3Fcc%3D2026219&cc=2026219

See also the next pages which contain the attatchements of marriage. 

The birth of Harmannus, you can find here: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-R38T-G?i=228&wc=MCLJ-7MS%3A343162201%2C343259501%3Fcc%3D2026219&cc=2026219

http://zoekakten.nl/plaatsen.php?id=GR%7C0014%7C&id=GR%7C0014%7C%23h

Huwelijks bijlagen januari 1825  akte nr. 9 wellicht zit er een geboorteakte bij. 

Ben nu op een plaats  waar de akte niet wil downloaden.

Mvg

Yes thank you  I have found the registrations for both daughters.  Catherina's death registration cites previous husbands as Coenraad Wilhelm Broekhof and Peter Olsen Kors Lund. I am in the process of looking for these two as I think the child on the marriage registration is possibly a son of a prior marriage and has been adopted by Johannes Renes. So far no luck.

Regards

Julie

Thank you for that I will look at these

I found him on the website www.wiewaswie.nl. He was born on 28 September 1826 in Ten Boer, province of Groningen as Michiel Renes. I have translated the entry for you.

Child: Michiel Renes
Gender: male
Place of birth: Garmerwolde municipal Ten Boer
Date of birth: Thursday 28 September 
Father: Johannes Renes
Age: 33
Profession: tailor
Mother: Chatarina Overberg
Age: 31
Record number: 64
Date of registration: 30 September 1826

Here is the link to his birth certificare on familysearch. Click here. 
When you put is name in the wiewaswie website you can download a full colour scan of the certificate.

Oh Johanna

how amazing thank you so much.

Thank all of you for your help very much appreciated, anything I can do to assist in your searches let me know.

Kind regards

Julie

Dit is een ander echtpaar denk ik !

Aktedatum	01-05-1826
Geboortedatum	29-04-1826
Geboorteplaats	Groningen
Kind	Machiel Rennes Renes
Geslacht	m
Vader	Machiel Renes
Moeder	Maike Jans van der Molen
Leeftijd	35 jaar
Beroep	naaister
	-
Diversen	gewettigd bij huwelijk ouders d.d. 16-04-1829 te Groningen
Bron	Geboorteregister Groningen 1826 Aktenummer 340

 

Renes	Machiel	relatie	Groningen	08-02-1845	overlijdensakte
08-02-1845 Groningen Overledene Maaijke Jans Geslacht v Leeftijd 56 jaar Geboorteplaats Woudsend     Relatie Machiel Renes Relatietype weduwe/weduwnaar     Vader Jan Tjallings     Moeder Baukjen Aukes       -     Bron Overlijdensregister Groningen 1845 Aktenummer 92

Thank you Renee this is Johannes's brother who also had a Michiel 

much appreciated

Peter Olsen Korslund, geboren in Kopenhagen, 27 jaar, zeeman, zoon van Ole Korslund en Anne Petersdochters, huwt in Amsterdam (Reg. 5 - fol. 5v) op 21.10.1835 met Catharina Overberg, geboren in Groningen, 40 jaar, tapster, dochter van Hermanus Overberg en Auke Boerboom.

ah ha another piece of the puzzle

many thanks

Johannes Renes and Catharina Overberg were married on 23 January 1825 in the city of Groningen.

They had 4 children:
1. Harmannus Renes, born 23 October 1818 in the city of Groningen. He was born as Harmannus Overberg and was legitimized at their wedding.
2. Michiel Renes, born 28 September 1826 in Ten Boer.
3. Lijsbeth Renes, born 13 April 1830 in Ten Boer, died 15 May 1893 in the city of Groningen.
4. Antje Rennes, born 19 January 1833 in Ten Boer, died 25 April 1902 in the city of Groningen.

Unfortunately I can not find anything else about Harmannus Renes. 

The wedding supplements of Johannes Renes an Catharina Overweg also contain some useful information. Click here for the link to the first page of the supplements. The supplements are on image 68-76.

- Johannis son of Machiel Renes & Elisabeth Beerense was baptized 16 October 1793 in the city of Utrecht.
- Catharina daughter of Hermanus Overberg and Auke Beerboom was baptized on 7 January 1795 in the city of Groningen.
- Michiel Rennes husband of Elizabeth Berends died on 17 November 1816 in the city of Groningen.

The wedding supplements of Peter Olsen Korslund and Catharina Overberg contain a Dutch translation of Peter's Danish baptizm record.

Peter Olsen was born on 17 february 1808 and baptized on 13 march 1808 in the church in Holmen. His parents are listed as: Ole Korslund and Anne Petersdochter. Click here for the first page of the wedding supplements. The supplements are on image 835-844.

Catharina Overberg married to Conrad Wilhelm Brockhof on 13 June 1838 in Amsterdam. 

Relefant information from the wedding supplements:
- Conrad Wilhelm son of Johan Jobst Brockhof and Anna Christina Engel nee Wehrmeijer was baptized on 31 January 1793 in Osnabruck.
- Geertje Fokkes Veltkamp married to Conrad Wilhelm Brockhof died 4 October 1835 in Amsterdam.
- Peter Olsen Korslund died 14 April 1837 in Amsterdam.

Click here for the first page of the wedding supplements. The supplements are on image 1016-1027. 

In the Amsterdam birth indexes 1833-1842 I can not find any children that were born from Catharina Overberg and Peter Olsen Korslund.

Thank you Johanna that is fantasitc!

Julie