Catharina van der Dennen trouwt in Ravenstein op 27-11-1787 met Theodorus van Summeren en overlijdt in Herpen op 11-1-1847. Volgens haar overlijdensakte is zij dan 85 jaar oud en geboren in Gemert. Daar zou zij dan rond 1762 zijn geboren. Op 5-4-1761 trouwen haar ouders Petrus van den Deen en Margaretha Blanckers.Ik heb van acht kinderen van dit echtpaar een doopinschrijving in Gemert gevonden: Joanna van der Deennen op 19-2-1762, Petrus van der Denne op 28-1-1764, Maria van der Denne op 4-1-1766, Joanna van der Dennen op 19-12-1767, Jacobus van der Dennen op 25-4-1769, Antonius van der Denne op 13-12-1770, Anna Deenen op 27-5-1772 en Lucas van der Deene op 22-7-1775.Zoals blijkt wordt de naam van de vader op verschillende manieren geschreven en dat geldt ook voor die van de moeder. Margaretha Adams Blanckart, Blanckaert, Blankers bijvoorbeeld. De opeenvolging van de geboorten laat weinig ruimte voor een dochter Catharina rond 1762. Er zijn drie mogelijkheden: ik heb niet goed genoeg gezocht, Catharina werd gedoopt als Joanna, of Catharina is geboren voor het huwelijk van haar ouders (maar hiervan heb ik niets gevonden). Is er iemand die uitsluitsel kan geven.

vervallen. zie hieronder

Even je vraag doorgespeeld aan een Gemert kenner.
Kreeg dit als antwoord.Blijkbaar 9 kinderen

3 Maria Catharina Petrus van der Dennen. Zij is gedoopt op 04-01-1766 in Gemert [Reg 14 pag 35].

Peter: Joannes Verbrugge Meter: Henrica van der Denne Inplaats van Meter: Petronella van den Acker

Maria is overleden op 11-01-1847 in Herpen, 81 jaar oud [BS O 1].

Religie:

Maria trouwde, 21 jaar oud, op 27-11-1787 in Ravenstein [DTB inv 16 fol 393] met Theodorus van Summeren. Theodorus is overleden na 21-05-1804.

Notitie bij Theodorus: Woont te Herpen (1804)

MVG-Paul

Met dank aan Paul:

In de INDEX staat zij alleen maar vermeld als Maria. Dat laat weer eens het belang zien van het raadplegen van de originele inschrijvingen.

Bedankt. Ik had inderdaad de 8 kinderen in de index gevonden, maar in de scans gezocht rond 1762, het jaar waarin ze geboren moest zijn volgens haar overlijdensakte. Leeftijden bij overlijden zijn nogal onbetrouwbaar, zeker in dit geval waarbij haar overlijden in 1847 werd aangegeven door twee buren, maar de combinatie van jaartal en ontbreken van de naam Catharina in de index hebben mij op het verkeerde spoor gezet. Overigens werd zij in 1847 aangegeven als Chatarina van der Dennen. Haar echtgenoot was als Theodorus van Zummeren op 23-5-1819 in Herpen overleden.

Dag Frank

Waarschijnlijk kleine slip of the pen

Overlijden Theodorus van Zummeren te Herpen

23 maart 1819 ipv maand mei

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9398-L5PS-D?i=515&cc=2026223

Nota Het koppel had nl 9 kinderen

MVG-Paul

Hello, saw your post regarding Theodorus Van Summeren.  I have information indicating that he died on 23/5/1818.  He is my 4th great granddfather.  I'm trying to determine the extent of my family tree in the Netherlands.  Any insight would be great.

Hello.  This small slip of the pen could be huge in trying to determine the extent of my family tree.  As Theodorus van Summeren he is my 4th great grandfather.

On 24 (not 23) March 1819 died in Herpen Theodorus van Zummeren, son of Lambertus van Zummeren en Maria van den Acker, see the link by Paul above. Theodorus was baptized on 27-4-1765 in Herpen, see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QX-Y9SZ-3?i=339&cc=2037960

Also in Herpen, on 23-5-1818, died another Theodorus van Zummeren, son of Henricus van Zummeren and Maria van der Zand, see https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/122d4c2d-3611-d3a0-803c-ad4c3d2d34d9

It is up to you to determine which Thodorus is your 4th great grandfather. Unfortunately, the death certificates do not mention any wives. If you want more help, you have to give more details.

Thank you for getting back to me.  Confusion is existing on my end because the repeated use of first names along with information on Theodorus being spelled with a "S" or a"Z" doesn't help either.  I'm beginning to believe the Theodorus who died on 24-03-1819 is probably correct.  This is what I found on the weiwaswei site, https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/search/ and I see you added a comment there today.  Going forward I will see where it takes me.  I have that he only had one child, a son, Johannes born on 21-11-1799 with his wife Catharina van DeDenne.  Do you have information on the one with a "Z"?

Thanks for your help.

The proper spelling of Theodorus' son is Joannes, not Johannes like I have in the prior post.

Spelling of names, especially in the church books, is often inconsistent. Therefore, Theodorus (Christian name) van Summeren, Theodorus van Zummeren and Dirk (nickname) van Zummeren are different names of the same person, baptized in 1765. (In the civil registration, from 1811, the spelling of his offspring is nearly always with an 'S'.) The name of his wife is spelled Maria Catharina van der Denne, Catharina van der Dennen and Catharina van der Denne.

The couple Theodorus van Summeren - Maria Catharina van der Denne got at least four children:

1. Petronella van Summeren, baptized Herpen 4-5-1791;
2. Joannes van Summeren, baptized Herpen 21-11-1799;
3. Lambertina van Summeren, baptized Herpen 16-12-1801 and
4. Petrus van Summeren, baptized Herpen 11-2-1805, an ancestor of one of my aunts, who was married to a brother of my mother.

Joannes van Summeren (also Jan van S. and Johannes van S.) was married three times:

1. on 14-2-1825 in Herpen to Joanna Gertrudis/Joanna Gertruda/Gertruda/Geertruda van Asten (baptized Herpen 29-4-1800, died Herpen 12-11-1833); the couple got four children;
2. on 25-4-1835 in Herpen to Antonia Eijkhout (baptized Leeuwen 21-10-1810, died Herpen 4-7-1842); the couple got two children;
3. on 17-5-1851 in Herpen to Wilhelmina Vosch (baptized Herpen 28-3-1800, died Herpen 10-4-1867), widow of Jacobus Gruitrooij.

Joannes, who was a farmer, died in Herpen on 1-1-1885.

I hope this information is useful.

Thank you Frank for the information.  It is indeed very helpful.  The part of the tree I'm looking at now starts with the marriages of Joannes van Summeren.  He is my 3rd great grandfather.  I have found only two prior wives, Antonia Eijkhout and Joanna G van Asten.  I was unaware of Wilhelmina Vosch. 

One of the children born to Joannes and Joanna was Mathias 13-12-1830.  Mathias is who immigrated to the United States.  Unfortunately I do not know when yet.  Upon entering the United States either he dropped one of the letter "m"'s or if immigration dropped.  From that point forward our family tree is pretty much in the United States.  Mathias had a brother, Geradus 12-9-1825.  I have not been able to find any further information on him.  There may be descendants of him still living in the Netherlands.  

The marriage to Antonia Eijkhout resulted in two children, Geertruy 4-10-1837 and Theodorus 28-2-1840.  I have found that Theodorus was married 3 times.  From what I've gathered, the descendants of Theodorus remained in the Netherlands.  So descendants of of Geradus 12-9-182 (if he had any), descendants of Geertruy 4-10-1837 (if he had any) and descendants of Theodorus 28-2-1840 more than likely remained in the Netherlands and would be relatives of mine.  Correct?

Thanks again for all your help.

Scott

The Gerardus born on 12-9-1825 died only 9 days old on 20-9-1825:  https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/573c8e71-9102-af10-5afc-12ff75aeb18a?person=71f5a590-4637-11e3-a747-d206bceb4d38

Another Gerardus was born from Antonia Eijkhout on 28-1-1836:  https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/822d0738-da38-6e7b-ec69-cad5270ab65b?person=6956dae9-f3f5-a91b-4542-95f61b64477d

This latter Gerardus van Summeren married on 19-06-1867 in Herpen with Petronella Alberdina van Dijk, born on 08-12-1843 in Herpen: https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/07f9a04f-f897-110a-51f8-8a166a102b33?person=af497214-462d-11e3-a747-d206bceb4d38

@Scott

Correct indeed. For example, my 91 year old aunt, whose mothers name is Geerdina van Summeren (1889-1983) is one of your relatives. Geerdina van Summeren was a daughter of Gerardus van Summeren (1859-1931) and Catharina van Gaal (1855-1924). The couple had four sons and four daughters. I would be very surprised if none of them have offspring still living. However, because of privacy laws, their data is not public. This is valid for all persons still alive.

The public genealogical data can be found on several wibsites. WieWasWie you already know. For research in the province of Noord-Brabant I suggest the website of the 'Brabants Historisch Informatie Centrum', see https://www.bhic.nl/english

Another source (not completely reliable) is Geneanet, for example a certain Anja published information on Gerardus van Summeren, born in 1836: https://gw.geneanet.org/anja30?n=summeren+van&oc=1&p=gerardus

Frank,

This is where it is getting confusing because of repeated first names.  I've been following the Geradus branch and until you provided additional information I only knew of one Geradus 12-9-1825 and he died 10 days later as "A" pointed out in a prior post.  It is the second Geradus 28-1-1836 I was aware of.  Then again I have Geradus as an offspring between Joannes 29-11-1799 and Joanna G van Asten 29-4-1900 and not Antonia Eijkhout 21-10-1810.I have seen the Geradus-van Gaal relationship but do not think it's the same Geradus because the birthdays are so different.

Upon following the Geradus 28-1-1836 I did find he had 7 children from his marriage to Petronella Alberdina van Dijk 12-12-1843  on 19-6-1887.  The children I have found are 

• Johanna Maria 14-11-1869

• Antonia 27-5-1871

• Theodorus 15-12-1872 dies on 12-10-1941

  • Listed as being in prison sometime in 1925

• Antonetta Maria 31-5-1874

• Wilhelmina Johanna 25-12-1876 dies on 22-3-1881

• Johannes 10-11-1878 dies on 2-2-1880

• Petronella 3-8-1880 dies on 15-3-1881

• Petronella Alberdina dies on 7-5-1881

He then married Wilhelmina Willems on 30-7-1882 and has the following child

• A stillborn NN on 4-5-1885

Wilhelmina Willems dies on 28-8-1886

Geradus dies 21-1-1900

I will try and summarize where I'm at looking only at the male side of the family for now.  Looking for descendants of Geradus 28-1-1836, Geertruy 4-10-1837 and Theodorus 28-2-1840 as remaining in the Netherlands.  I apologize if I'm repeating myself but it's about the only way I can keep things straight until I have them memorized.

Interesting comment about living offspring data being private.  Here I can find anybody's birth information online.  Same is true for marriages, deaths, arrests, address, etc.  There isn't much that you cannot find about a person.

This will occupy my time for a few hours.

Thank you all for your help.

Scott

Thank you for the information.  Finding out they named another son with the same same was a little surprising.  How are you associated with this family tree, if I may ask? 

Thank you for the information.  Finding out they named another son with the same same was a little surprising.  How are you associated with this family tree, if I may ask? 

Hi Scott

I assume your question is meant for me?!

I'm not related, but I assist people with their research when they have specific questions. This is what most of the  (active) participants on this forum do. Only very few participants have direct family ties when helping out other people.

Often questions arise from not knowing which resources are available or how to research them efficiently, and it is part of the hobby and fun to help out others.

The Gerardus van Summeren married to Catharina van Gaal, is son of Peter van Summeren and Ardina van Rooij.

Birth (20-3-1859): https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/90f3e369-39f5-c142-6951-b37716a53654?person=d5da7014-0061-ba72-e7ad-bb75f2f0a4f3

Marriage (8-5-1882): https://www.bhic.nl/memorix/genealogy/search/deeds/71d62a34-0e42-fe00-17f2-e087ec7ee341?person=587aa5b0-462e-11e3-a747-d206bceb4d38

A van Egmond - Do many people trace their family tree there?  I may need some more help after I sort through in more detail what I have and more importantly what I don't.  I understand there are some guidelines/rules regarding living people, but what if someone from there wanted to contact me?  I'm not sure if very extended family members would want to connect.

Thanks again for all your help.