Seeking the parentage of Grietie Cornelis van der Hoog of 16th/17th century Noordwijkerhout, later of Spaarndam and Spaarnwoude.  Grietie married Willem Class Poot on 15 April 1713 at Spaarnwoude.  According to the marriage document, she was from Noordwijkerhout.  Based on the marriage date, I estimate the bride's birth date to be around 1690.  The following were their children that I could find (possibly may have inadvertently overlooked others) from the Spaarndam registers: Claas, baptized on 12 May 1714 (witness: Neeltje Class); Haasje, baptized 27 Dec 1715 (witness: Neeltje C(or)nelis), Neeltje, baptized on 28 March 1717 (witness: Maritje Cornelis), and Antje, baptized on 19 Jun 1729 (witnesses: Pieter Dircks and Agie Hussen).

It's possible that Grietie's siblings (Neeltje and Maritje) acted as baptismal witnesses. 

Any help would be sincerely appreciated.

Thanks.

Nothing on Grietje yet, but Willem Claasz Poot is supposedly an interesting character.

http://www.rhczuidoostutrecht.com/aw_zoeken.php?mivast=74&mizig=210&miadt=74&miaet=1&micode=386&minr=955167&miview=inv2&milang=nl

802 Akte voor Zeger Wolfsen, Cornelis van ’t Ent en Willem Claasz Poot, schepenen van Spaarnwoude, waarbij Nicolaas Blijdenzin, rentmeester te Alkmaar, als gemachtigde van Maria Ignace de Clercque de Willock, mede-erfgenaam van de overleden Johanna Maria van der Burg van Oudaan (in haar leven gehuwd met Livin Philibert de Clerque), ingevolge procuratie dd. 4 december 1723 voor notaris J. de Dobbeleere te Gent (België), verklaart voor 800 gulden te hebben verkocht aan Adriaan van Rijn, wonend te Haarlem, 3 aan elkaar gelegen stukken weiland in Spaarnwoude aan de Molenwatering, met ten oosten de Kerkweg, ten zuiden de watering, ten westen Arij Pieterse Brinckhorst en ten noorden de stad Haarlem, 27 maart 1725

His function is Schepen => village council member

Speaking of the Poot family, I recall coming across this document from 1697.  This appears to be Willem Claas Poot's father, Class Willem Poot whom I believe was an alderman: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QK-MDL6?i=87&cc=2037985&cat=305858

One possible connection would be Dirck Cornelisz van der Hoog, who married on 08-04-1724 in Spaarnwoude to Aagie Huijbersdr Heemkerk. She a full blooded Noordwijkerhout girl of course, and he geboortig van Halfwegen Leijden.
That's interesting because this is Halfweg under Lisse, and from there take two steps backwards and you're in Noordwijkerhout. And there were Van der Hoogs and Van 't Hoogs in Lisse

Groeten, Frans

So far, found the following in the RK registers of Lisse:

Grietie Cornelis, baptism date of 16 August 1691:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99QJ-5RPT?i=17&cc=2037907&cat=105442

Cornelia (which I believe is a pet form for Neeltje), baptism of 17 March 1693 (There was a Neeltje Cornelis as a baptism witness for Class Willem Poot, son of Grietje Cornelis van der Hoog and Willem Classzn. Poot on 12 May 1714): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QJ-5TQ3?i=21&cc=2037907&cat=105442

Jacob, baptised on 6 June 1695:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QJ-5T4H?i=27&cc=2037907&cat=105442

Grietje Cornelis, baptised on 25 August 1698:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QJ-5Y4C?i=35&cc=2037907&cat=105442

Jan Cornelisse, baptised on 28 January 1700: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QJ-5THS?i=38&cc=2037907&cat=105442

All were the children of Cornelis Huijgden and Maritje Jacobs.  Note:  I'm making no claim the Grietje I found here is my ancestor.  Just pointing out an initial find.

these two are children of two different Cornelissen Huijgen van der Cluft.

Anyway, when they were living in Halfweg(en) they wouldnt go to church in Lisse, but in Vogelenzang/Bloemendaal. In FS listed under Bloemendaal. Besides, in the mean time I think I found their (Grietje and Dirck) parents to be Cornelis Cornelisz and Neeltje Nanningsdr, You'll find the civil marriage in Lisse 03-12-1684 and RK 02-12-1684 Vogelenzang/Bloemendaal.
Bit of a difficult family - it's late now, more tomorrow if needed.

Regards, Frans

Hi Frans:

Based on your post, locating the potential parents of Grietje and Dirk, this is what I turned up:

The marriage records you located -

Marriage of Cornelis and Neeltje Nanningsdr - 2 December 1684 (Church):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QV-Y8MY?i=1190&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Marriage announcement (Civil):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QJ-RCHF?i=319&cc=2037907&cat=174376

Grietje, baptized on 24 March 1685 (Halfwege), witness Geertje Cornelis:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-Y83N?i=1171&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Theodora, baptized on 27 July 1686 (Halfwege), witnesses Cornelis Dircks and Geisje Dircks:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-YZN7?i=1173&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Nanning and Maria, baptized on 1 December 1687 (Halfwege) (per Frans), witnesses Dirck Nannings and Maria (couldn't decipher patronymic):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-YZ8W?i=32&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Margaretha, baptized on 5 Oct 1688 (Halfwege), witnesses Geertje Cornelis and Jan Cornelisse:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99QV-YZTJ?i=1178&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Theodorus, baptized on 12 December 1691 (Halfwege), witnesses Cornelis Dircks and Geisje Dircks:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-Y89M?i=1181&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Joanna, baptized on 2 December 1693 (Halfwege), no witnesses recorded:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9QV-Y8MJ?i=1184&cc=2037985&cat=631054

Jacoba, baptized on 12 January 1697 (Halfwege), witnesses Dirck Nannings and Theuntje Nannings:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-Y837?i=1187&cc=2037985&cat=631054

It's possible I may have missed some children along the way, but so far, this is what I turned up.

Regards,

Steve

Ok, good. So at least they were all born at Halfwegen. There also were the twins Nanning and Maria (01-12-1687) and another Jaapje at 29-06-1699. Also the one at 12-12-1691 would be Theodorus, the Dirck who married in Spaarnwoude  08-04-1724.
You also saw that Cornelis was named as 'Coper' at the marriage in Lisse. The family apparently went under both names, Coper/Koper and Van der Hoog/Verhoog. That certainly the case with a "Jan Cornelisz van der Hoog geseijt Koper" (1701 at his 3rd marriage). His son Willem and his children all Verhoog and Van der Hoog. I believe this Jan Cornelisz was twice witness at the baptism of Cornelis and Neeltjes children.
There was also a Dirck Cornelisz Coper (lived in Noordwijkerhout), and his children Cornelis and Gijsje/Geesje were also witnesses.

Then it becomes even more difficult. There was another Cornelis Cornelisz Coper in Noordwijkerhout, with just a few mentions, who bought land in Lisse in 1640. I think that's way too early for the Cornelis who married in 1684 so this could be his father. No wife known but Dirck and Cornelis both had daughters named Grietje. But Cornelis and possibly Jan had a Jaapje. 

In Lisse there was also a family named Van 't Hoog. There was a Cornelis Dircksz who married a Griete (yes) in 1597 - in 1623 they had Leentgen, Adriaentgen and Dirck. Dirck married 1631 Gereformeerd, no Cornelis as offspring.

Not much to go on, I'm afraid.

Regards, Frans

"...possible that Grietie's siblings (Neeltje and Maritje) acted as baptismal witnesses"

Maritje would be the same as Maria (01-12-1687) - one of the twins. But I don't see Neeltje. Supposedly, with a mothers name of Neeltje and a fathers name of Cornelis it is not surprising to have a daughter Neeltje, but her baptism is missing for now.

Last night, there seemed to have an issue with connecting to this forum site.  Off line, I traded a couple of emails with Frans concerning the parentage of Neeltje Nanningsdr.  Frans indicated Neeltje's father was Nanning Dircks Van Beyeren.  At the wee hours of the night, I found this posting: https://www.familievanbeijeren.nl/humo-gen/family.php?database=humo_&id=F1444764261&main_person=I863

So far, I haven't located the document which shows Neeltje Nanningsdr. to be the daughter of Nanning Dircks Van Beyeren, or Nanning to be the son of Dirk Nanningsz. van Beyeren and Anthonia Pier De Brouwersdochter.  Nanning was mentioned in the Lisse transpoort registers, from 1653-1671.  

Later on, I'll see if I can find anything relevant in the transport registers around 1684 when Cornelis Cornelisz and Neeltje Nanningsdr got married that might solve the puzzle.

Regards,

Steve

Steve

Again, not much to go on. I have no documents that link Neeltgen directly to Nanning Dircksz van Beijeren. At the baptisms of her children we find Dirck Nannings en Theuntgen Nannings - presumably her brother and sister. Dirck had a number of children baptised in Lisse, where Neeltgen didn't appear but Theuntgen did, and also (twice) a Cornelis Cornelisz - who might be Neeltgens husband.
But Theuntgen is a clue: she presumably was named after Anthonia Pieters, her grandfather. 
In Hoofdgeld 1623, Dirck Nanningsz (1) and Anthonia Pieters had a daughter Maritge/Maertge. She married Engel Dircksz van Steijn/Larum which links her to Nanning Dircksz van Beijeren (ORA Lisse 47 dd 28-02-1673): a naasting (don't know what that would be in English) in which Nanning Dircksz is called the schoonbroeder of Engel Dircksz van Larum.
The marriage of Dirck Nanningsz (1) and Anthonia in 1620 you'll find in my transcription of the oldest Lisser marriages.

Regards, Frans

Hi Frans:

I believe naasting means neighbor.

This looks like a case of indirect evidence, based on the baptismal witnesses, and in Nanning's case, being called brother-in-law, and the naming patterns..  Typically, the witnesses at baptism events are family members, so I see the hints.  You laid the case out quite nicely.  

In an attempt to tie Grietje and Dirk Cornelis in Spaarnwoude a bit closer, I looked up Dirk's children there, Just a few:
Neeltje 30-03-1726 witn. Willem Klaasse and Neeltje Knelis.  Willem Claasz Poot presumably, and the same Neeltje you saw on 27-12-1715? And of course, Neeltje herself named after Dirk's mother.
Huijbert 18-08-1719 with witnesses form the Heemskerk side

And oddly, another Neeltje on 15-01-1734 as a daughter of Dirk Cornelisse Poot and Agie Huijberts. Witn. Cornelis Jans van Velsen and Haasie Willems (who could be the daughter of Grietje Cornelisdr.) 

As an aside, I also saw that Jannetje Dirks van Beijeren had children in Spaarnwoude. Dirck Nannings had a daughter Jannetje (and Maritje and Jacob also, as witnesses).

Naasting was a legal concept Steve. It means that somebody had the right to claim a property within a year and a day after it was sold; when he could prove that he was closer related to the seller than the buyer was. In this case Nanning Dircksz sold a property to someone named Anthonio Block, and Engel Dircksz claimed that he was closer related (through or in behalf of his wife of course). Easy case because Block was just an outsider looking for real estate. So he had to give it up to Engel Dircksz.

Regards, Frans

Hi Frans:

Thanks for clarifying on Naasting.  I appreciate the context.  Also, thanks for checking out Grietje and Dirk Cornelis in Spaarnwoude.  I'd say their parentage is solved.  As for their mother, Neeltje, I'd say it's a case of indirect evidence of her being the daughter of Nanning Dirks.  But the evidence is there.

Regards, Steve

Speaking of Nanning, I found this record in the Leiden collection from 1664.  He is called Nanning Dirx soon van Beyeren:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99R-WZWT?i=190&cat=2690373.

Unsure what this deed is about.

It's an obligation (IOU) from Nanning Dircksz, with Engel Dircksz van Steijn acting as bondsman / guarantor for his swager (brother-in-law)

Regards, Frans

Found this info where Nanning Dircksz/Dirxsz) was mentioned: https://gw.geneanet.org/lidas?lang=fr&n=van+steijn&oc=0&p=engel+dirksz.

Notitie bij Engel Dirksz. van Steijn: Keukenhof, A.M. Hulkenberg, blz. 53 Verkoop van de boerderij, 1662. Te zelfder tijd werd ook de boerderij, een woning (zo)als huis (ARA Recht. Arch Lisse nr. 9 fol.30) schuur, (hooi)berg ende landen, tesamen groot 16 morgen, verkocht. De landerijen grenzen aan het Keukenduin, Keukenhof, de percelen van Tonis Peters (van der Helder), Nanning Dirxsz (van Beyeren), Knotter, Pieter Mijndersz. (een der beide executeurs) en plaatselijk ook aan de Trekvaart. De koopsom is f 9300, te betalen in vrijen, zuiveren gelde op drie termijnen aan een volgende meidage (1 mei) bij egale portien. Kopers de gebroeders Engel en Jeroen Dircxsz. Natuurlijk zijn de van Steyn´s geen eigenaars van de boerderij gebleven. Het waren eenvoudige mensen en dit ging hun draagkracht wel te boven. Maar ze hebben natuurlijk gedacht iets aan de koop te verdienen, en dat is hun ook wel gelukt.

Op 4 mei 1664 verschijnen Engel en Jeroen Dircxs van Steijn voor Schout en Schepenen te Lisse. Zij dragen over aan de Heer Henrick van Hove te Amsterdam de boerderij met 17 morgen en 2 hond(erd roeden) land (Archief Keukenhof nr.2. ARA, Recht.arch.Lisse nr.9 fol. 69). De 16 morgen zijn gekomen van de erfgenamen van zaliger Juffrouw Catharina van der Laen, in haar leven huisvrouwe van zaliger Adriaen Martens Block, de 8 hond van Nanning Dirksz van Beyeren. Onder de belendingen wordt genoemd de woning van Sr Antonio Block, n.l. Overduin, door deze Amsterdamse Block in 1662 gekocht. verder de Trekvaart , het Schapenweitje, Sr Rochel, de Keukenduin, de erfgenamen van de in 1658 gestorven Jeronymus Coymans (van Zandvliet) en Sr Schuyl. Deze laatste ´sinjeur´ is Herman Jansz Schuyl te Leiden, die in 1658 in de lage Venen 800 roeden had gekocht van Cornelis Gerrits de Langevelt te Voorhout. De gebroeders van steyn beloven het voorz. verkofte te vrijen en waren, elk in solidum onder renonciatie van de beneficien ordinis divisionis et excussionis van alle lasten, daarmede ´tselve bij haar zoude mogen zijn belast. Dat zullen ze allemaal wel niet dadelijk begrepen hebben. Wel was hun natuurlijk duidelijk dat ze aan de transactie goed wat hadden overgehouden. Koopprijs: f 11.620, waarvan de helft contant. Bovendien kregen de kinderen Van Steyn nog een verering van f 55. Ondertekend: A.A. van Gorcum, schout, en Johannes Lodewyxsz van Molijn en Aelbert Jansse Heemskerck, schepenen.

In the context of 1662 record, I have no idea what the term "Knotter" means.  Occupation?  Legal term?

Steve, I think you should consider it as a list of (neighbouring) owners: Tonis Pieters and Nanning Dircxsz and Knotter and Pieter Mijndertsz

In the original it looks somewhat different, see here on <scan 35> left below. where Knotter is mentioned twice. This is probably Jacoib Dircksz Arcxhoek or one of his sons, who were also known as Knottiger or Knottig. 

Regards, Frans

Came across this entry from 1665-1667., archiefnummer 506, Archief van notaris Nicolaes van der Bouchorst, 1657-1667, inventarisnummer 941, aktenummer 90, on Nanning Dirkx.  There was a mention of a Maria Dirkx (his sister or someone else?):  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L995-92D2?i=116&cat=2690453

Hi Frans:

This entry from Overige Noordwijkse en Noordwijkerhoutse gezinnen caught my eye: 

C3368
Adriaen Theunisz (Dijckhouder) en Maertgen Jansdr van Duijn
Lis 13.I/--: Adriaen Tonisz weduenaer van Maria Jans woonende onder Noortwijckerhout, bruijdegom met
Maertge Jansdr van Duijn wedue van Nanningh Dircxsz van Beijeren woonende tot Lisse, bruijt
12-06-1678 Lis: 1e gebod
19-06-1678 Lis: 2e gebod
26-06-1678 Lis: 3e gebod en attestatie van de schout van Lisse dat de geboden zonder verhindering zijn gegaan
Woonden in Noordwijkerhout; geen kinderen uit dit huwelijk – er was in 1680 een kind uit een eerder
huwelijk van Adriaen.

From ARA, RAL, nr 9, fo. 159:

Op 29 jan. 1671 verklaren de gemachtigden van de "gemeijne" crediteuren van wijlen Nanningh Dircxs aan Arij Jansz. van Duijn publiekelijk te hebben verkocht "een seeckere huijsinge ende erve mette verdere getimmerten daer op staende" (ARA, RAL, nr 9, fo. 159).