Hi

I am looking for any legal documentation (certificates etc.) that will show where my Stamvader, Hendrik (Johannes) de Ridder, originated from!

FACTS :

The only evidence I have (from a registered researcher) is an excerpt from a marriage register from 5 July 1818, that states that he is from "Dordrecht, koningryk van Holland".

DEDUCTIONS :

I would assume that if he got married in 1818, he was at least 16 years old (youngest) - which would mean that he was born in 1802 or earlier.

If that is the case, I am looking for :

1. Hendrik/Johannes de Ridder -or- Johannes/Hendrik de Ridder -or- Hendrik de Ridder -or- Johannes de Ridder
2. born in Dordrecht -or- lived in Dordrecht
3. during the period 1780-1818.
4. He emigrated to South Africa.

If anyone can help me with any information on the above, it would be greatly appreciated!

Kindest Regards

Jacques de Ridder

(6th generation - South African)

Blijkbaar is hij getrouwd met Susanna Elizabeth Smit - en heeft hij in elk geval een zoon Hendrik Andries (geb. 23.6.1828) - zijn er meer kinderen?

That is correct. I do have all the information about his children, wife etc. He married Susanna Elisabeth Smit on 5 July 1818. There were 4 children from this marriage;Hendrik Andries de Ridder was the 3rd born (23 June 1828, district of George, Cape Province, South Africa) - also my GREAT-GREAT-Grandfather. Hendrik (Johannes) was of course my GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-Grandfather.

I am looking for his (Hendrik / Johannes) date and location of birth; parents', siblings' names etc.

Vaak worden de eerste zoon en de tweede dochter vernoemd naar hun grootouders van vaderskant - kunt u de voornamen van alle kinderen geven?

Hi

First off, may I wish you a festive season and I sincerely hope you have a prosperous new year.

Thank you for pointing that out to me. Yes, that may very well be the case.

Here are the names of his (Hendrik / Johannes) children in order of birth :

1. Antonie Christoffel (son)
2. Margaretha Magdalena (daughter)
3. Hendrik Andries (son)
4. Benjamin Johannes (son)

Kindest Regards

Jacques

Wie weet: ene (Chris)stoffel de Ridder, gedoopt in Dordrecht (Geref.) op 8.3.1769, zoon van Jan de Ridder en Maria de Schodt, huwde in Dordrecht op 3.9.1795 met Johanna Westdijk. Hij overleed in Dordrecht op 13.6.1823 aan de Kleine Spuistraat.

Hi

If I understand correctly ?

• Jan de Ridder married Maria de Schodt (possibly the GRANDfather and GRANDmother of Hendrik?)

they had a son

1. Christoffel de Ridder, baptized in Dordrecht on 8 March 1769 (possibly the father of Hendrik?)
2. later married Johanna Westdijk at Dordrecht on 3 September 1795 (possibly the mother of Hendrik?)
3. Christoffel died at "de Kleine Spuisstraat" on 13 June 1823 ?

• What were the names and D.O.B. of the children of Christoffel and Johanna?
• Any documentation/certificates/registers?

If these were indeed his parents (and I believe it to be), and Hendrik was NOT born before they were married, then Hendrik could have been born in the period 1795 - 1802, got married in 1818!

Thank you very much for the information thus far.

Kind Regards

Jacques de Ridder

I advise you to check some records in de archives in Dordrecht: 

https://www.regionaalarchiefdordrecht.nl/archief/zoeken/?mivast=46&mizig=100&miadt=46&milang=nl&miview=tbl

search under:

showing:

Op 21.10.1791 (dus lang voor het huwelijk op 3.9.1795 ) wordt ene Maria is Dordrecht gedoopt, dochter van Stoffel de Ridder (die naam is er kennelijk later bijgeschreven) en Johanna Wesdijk. Achter "Maria" staat "onegt" - maar dat is doorgestreept.

Hi

Thank you for the information.

I could not find any proof that "Stoffel" de Ridder was the father of "Hendrik/Johannes" when searching for birth registrations.

• This leaves me to think that "Stoffel/Christoffel" may not have been the father of "Hendrik/Johannes" - OR -
• "Hendrik/Johannes" may not have been from Dordrecht - OR -
• "Hendrik/Johannes" may not have been his proper names.

Are there perhaps any information containing traveller names from the Netherlands to South Africa (ship logs etc.)?

Kind Regards

Jacques

https://www.geni.com/projects/de-Ridder-Family-South-Africa/23554

shows arrival date of ship and could help looking for passengers list.

Did ship sail from Holland?

I've had a quick look at the list of members of the protestant church at Dordrecht here : link, don't see him in 1815-1817, maybe I did not go back far enough, or he was not a church member officially (=lidmaat). I also don't find him in that period in a book that lists protestant church members who left with an attest (link), presumably for the same reason.

Een vraag: de tijd tussen de aankomst van "Hendrik" de Ridder en zijn huwelijk is wel heel erg kort.
Komt de bruid (Susanna Elizabeth Smit) soms ook uit Dordrecht?
Is hij zijn bruid soms nagereisd?

Check this:

https://gw.geneanet.org/marietjie?lang=en&p=susanna+elisabeth&n=smit

Here are the names of his (Hendrik / Johannes) children in order of birth :

1. Antonie Christoffel (son)
2. Margaretha Magdalena (daughter)
3. Hendrik Andries (son)
4. Benjamin Johannes (son

The above image indicates that he arrived 26 January 1818.

I could not verify this. It ALSO appears to be duplicated information from another "Johannes de Ridder" who arrived from the Netherlands many years later.

So I do not entirely trust the information from PAMA.

• To answer your question : "Did ship sail from Holland?" - I would assume that the answer is yes.

Kind Regards

Jacques

"Een vraag: de tijd tussen de aankomst van "Hendrik" de Ridder en zijn huwelijk is wel heel erg kort.
Komt de bruid (Susanna Elizabeth Smit) soms ook uit Dordrecht?
Is hij zijn bruid soms nagereisd?"

I agree that the period from arrival (see my previous note where I believe it is incorrectly quoted by PAMA) is very short (29 Jan 1818 - 5 Jul 1818).

From researching Susanna Elisabeth Smit, I can see that she was born in the Cape Province, South Africa - thus she was NOT born in the Netherlands, nor did she travel with Hendrik de Ridder.

Regards

Jacques

Can you confirm that your ancestor's name was always given as Jan or Johannes (such as on the birth certificates of his children), except for that entry for one Hendrik de Ridder arriving in January 1818? If so, then that latter reference does not concern your ancestor, because Hendrik is not the same name as Jan/Johannes. That also explains the very short time between that arrival (of someone who is then not your ancestor) and the marriage (of your ancestor).

​Can you confirm that your ancestor's name was always given as Jan or Johannes, except for that entry for one Hendrik de Ridder arriving in January 1818? If so, then the latter reference does not concern your ancestor, because Hendrik is not the same name as Jan / Johannes. That also explains the very short time between that arrival (or someone who is not your ancestor) and the marriage (or your ancestor).

NO - I mentioned in the forum that his name was Hendrik (Johannes was just a possibility - it appears that PAMA (book) incorrectly confused the 2 x de Ridder's).

If Hendrik (or Johannes) married Susanna Elisabeth Smith born ca 1772,  also Hendrik (or Johannes)  could be much older and the text in marriage register could easily mean that he was living (in 1818) in Dordrecht but born in another place.

If Susanna Elisabeth Smit was born ± 1772 she would have been 46 years old in 1818 when she married Hendrik (or Johannes). That is rather old to have 4 children who were born after the marriage in 1818.

Are you sure that Susanna Elisabeth Smit who married Hendrik (or Johannes) de Ridder is the same person as Susanna Elisabeth Smit who was born ± 1772?