Forum logoFora » Genetische genealogie (DNA) » Do living van Weert's carry the oldest Y-dna in the world?

My grandson took part inthe Genome-2 Project; I took the big Y from Family Tree. Both of us are defined as P-311, which is between L11 and P312. This means a non-mutated Y-dna since the mid Bronze Age, likely representing the oldest living R1b haplo group in the Netherlands, or Europe. All others from the R1b Haplo group have mutated Y-dna (check the R1b tree!). My van Weert's originate from Dinther, N.B., still ground zero for van Weert's in the Netherlands (check the Meertens Institute family name distribution chart). Does anybody know a van Weert (from Dinther, preferably) interested in taking a 69 marker Y-dna test with FTDNA at my costs? As a Christmas present, maybe?

Gus Van Weert

Caledon East, ON


Gus Van Weert

If your current level of Y-DNA testing determines you to be P311 it doesn't mean you have unmutated DNA. That is statisticly almost impossible with a haplogroup that old.  It does mean that your current level of Y-DNA test was insufficient to classify you into any know younger haplogroup.  This ofcourse can means 2 things.

1.  You are a rare and sofar unknown haplogroup

2.  Your Y-DNA test is not enough to classify you for any younger haplogroup. 

The latter is the most likely. You can now get relative cheap panels of specific SNP tests at FTDNA and YSEQ that test you for mostly all known branches below a certain point. That way you can determine if you truly are a rare haplogroup.  Ofcourse if you have enough money to spent on Y-DNA testing you can take a Next Generation test like Big-Y at FTDNA or somewhere else to search for SNP's in most of the testable part of the Y-chromosoom.  That will help determine what haplogroup you belong to and may even help to define a new haplogroup if there are others that tested with NGC which you share a fairly recent common ancestor with.

Harold van Aalderen

Hi Harold: Thanks for your reaction. I agree with your assessment, but believe that the van Weert's fall under possibility 1. The following phylogenetic tree shows the current thinking about P311. It splits into P312 and U106, but also into CTS 4528 via S1194. This very small subgroup CTS 4528 has its own Facebook post called South Baltic DNA  and provides support for this area of genetic genealogy. For progress it would be very helpful to get as many potential P311's analyzed by the FTDNA Big-Y test. My number is 360054. I look forward to your reaction. Gus Van Weert


Gus Van Weert

There is only one way to find the answer but if you already have a FTDNA kitnumber I assume you joined the appropiate project already.  So I assume you also did the Big-Y.  In that case it is more or less a waiting game.

I am a U106 myself (way down the tree somewhere below DF96). I did the Big-Y test because I turned out to be a lonely twig with unusual STR mutations.  The Big-Y could help discover a new haplogroup and it did.

Iain McDonald did great work for the R1b-U106 project in calculating age estimates for the various SNP's. He is also trying out a model that could help to determine what migration routes where taken by the various ancestors.This way I learned that I have a common ancestor with some american living around 800 AD.  Ofcourse with a papertrail going back only to 1620 there is an 800 year gap to fill.  I am anticipating a long wait before the DNA tests will help me any further.

Harold van Aalderen

Hi Harold:  To shorten the waiting time, it will help to test Dinther van Weert's. I am prepared to pay for the FTDNA Big-Y for the first two demonstrable Dinther area male van Weert's. Mij contact e-mail is

Gus Van Weert

Harold: As you said, it's a waiting game. ISOGG has classified me as A 8043. That's before (older) than U106, but certainly not the oldest R1b DNA. For the latest (Sept 2016) phylogenetic R1b tree, google "R1b1a2_ht35, kumbarov". Van Weert is in the right hand column, about 35 names up from the bottom.

Gus Van Weert

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